When Jehovah's Witnesses do bad - Are criticisms of JW's valid? Part I

by rambaldi 102 Replies latest jw friends

  • rambaldi
    rambaldi

    When we see news reports of Jehovah’s Witnesses who are reported to have done something bad, what do we think? Sometimes people ridicule us for that. But is it really a something bad against Jehovah’s Witnesses? Are Jehovah’s Witnesses expected to do no wrong?

    Consider:The first people who were Jehovah’s witnesses were Adam and Eve. They were given this command:

    (Genesis 2:16-17) . . .And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. 17 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

    They had a choice. Obey and live or disobey and die. They chose to disobey. We see that they did disobey and they died. Why give them a choice is Jehovah’s servants cannot do bad?

    When Jehovah had a nation, his organization, what happened?

    (Exodus 19:5-6) And now if YOU will strictly obey my voice and will indeed keep my covenant, then YOU will certainly become my special property out of all [other] peoples, because the whole earth belongs to me. 6 And YOU yourselves will become to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’.

    Again, They had a choice. Obey and become his special property, disobey and be rejected.

    That choice was further stated in:

    (Deuteronomy 30:15-16) “See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16 [If you will listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God,] which I am commanding you today, so as to love Jehovah your God, to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will be bound to keep alive and to multiply, and Jehovah your God must bless you in the land to which you are going to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away and you do not listen, and you are actually seduced and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18 I do tell YOU today that YOU will positively perish. YOU will not lengthen YOUR days on the ground to which you are crossing the Jordan to go to take possession of it. 19 I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against YOU today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them.”

    There is that choice again. Love Jehovah and walk in his ways for life, blessings or serve other gods and death and malediction. Why give them a choice is Jehovah’s servants cannot do bad?

    As we see from Bible history some did love Jehovah and walked in his way, but others chose not to.

    (Judges 2:11-14) 11 And the sons of Israel fell to doing what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah and serving the Ba´als. 12 Thus they abandoned Jehovah the God of their fathers who had brought them out of the land of Egypt and went following other gods from among the gods of the peoples who were all around them and they began bowing down to them, so that they offended Jehovah. 13 Thus they abandoned Jehovah and took up serving Ba´al and the Ash´to·reth images. 14 At this Jehovah’s anger blazed against Israel, so that he gave them into the hands of the pillagers, and they began to pillage them; . . .

    (1 Samuel 15:24-26) 24 Then Saul said to Samuel: “I have sinned; for I have overstepped the order of Jehovah and your words, because I feared the people and so obeyed their voice. 25 And now, please, pardon my sin and return with me that I may prostrate myself to Jehovah.” 26 But Samuel said to Saul: “I shall not return with you, for you have rejected the word of Jehovah, and Jehovah rejects you from continuing as king over Israel.. . .

    (2 Samuel 12:9) . . .Why did you despise the word of Jehovah by doing what is bad in his eyes? U·ri´ah the Hit´tite you struck down with the sword, and his wife you took as your wife, and him you killed by the sword of the sons of Am´mon.

    (1 Kings 11:7-11) 7 It was then that Sol´o·mon proceeded to build a high place to Che´mosh the disgusting thing of Mo´ab on the mountain that was in front of Jerusalem, and to Mo´lech the disgusting thing of the sons of Am´mon. 8 And that was the way he did for all his foreign wives who were making sacrificial smoke and sacrificing to their gods. 9 And Jehovah came to be incensed at Sol´o·mon, because his heart had inclined away from Jehovah the God of Israel, the one appearing to him twice. 10 And respecting this thing he commanded him not to go after other gods; but he had not kept that which Jehovah had commanded. 11 Jehovah now said to Sol´o·mon: “For the reason that this has taken place with you and you have not kept my covenant and my statutes that I laid in command upon you, I shall without fail rip the kingdom away from off you, . . .

    (2 Chronicles 36:15-16) 15 And Jehovah the God of their forefathers kept sending against them by means of his messengers, sending again and again, because he felt compassion for his people and for his dwelling. 16 But they were continually making jest at the messengers of the [true] God and despising his words and mocking at his prophets, until the rage of Jehovah came up against his people, until there was no healing.

    We see that Jehovah’s Witnesses from Adam through Israel made choices to do bad. How did that reflect upon Jehovah and his worship? It didn’t. His purposes still continued on. He still had the plan of redemption, for his obedient people.

    Even in the first century Jehovah’s worshippers still chose to do bad and leave his worship.

    (1 Corinthians 5:1-2) 5 Actually fornication is reported among YOU, and such fornication as is not even among the nations, that a wife a certain [man] has of [his] father. 2 And are YOU puffed up, and did YOU not rather mourn, in order that the man that committed this deed should be taken away from YOUR midst?

    (2 Timothy 2:16-19) 16 But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, 17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·nae´us and Phi·le´tus are of that number. 18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some.

    (Jude 4) . . .My reason is that certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to this judgment, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ.

    First century Jehovah’s Witnesses chose to do bad and can we forget Judas. They were people who accepted the truth but later rejected it. Did that invalidate Jesus and his message? Of course not. No man can do that.

    We even know of that in the future:

    (Revelation 20:7-10) 7 Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Ma´gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the breadth of the earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. 10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulphur. . .

    After a 1000 years of paradise, people still chose to leave Jehovah and his worship. They will choose death and malediction over life. There is prompting from Satan as was at the beginning and all throughout.

    So what about now? If the first Jehovah’s Witnesses, the perfect Adam and Eve, His Witnesses the nation of Israel (Isaiah 43:10-12), his witnesses in the first century, Christians and the future people at the end of the millennium can all choose to disobey Jehovah why are Jehovah’s people today considered immune from that? Many choose malediction.

    But we also see that many choose to be obedient to Jehovah God and choose life. Revelation 7:9 tells us “a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes;” We definitely know that while there are and have been

    many Witnesses of Jehovah in the past who have proven unfaithful to God, there are many who have proven and will prove faithful to Jehovah God. Revelation 7:17 tells us that “the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life.” Those who have chosen to do bad will not interrupt Jesus’ future activity of guiding his servants to the waters of life.

  • iggy_the_fish
    iggy_the_fish

    Welcome to the internet! Play nicely now

    ig.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Welcome, most people here are ex jws.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    welcome rambaldi!

    enjoy your stay. see you around.

    many Witnesses of Jehovah in the past who have proven unfaithful to God

    unfaithful to who?

    ...he he he, just kidding. being an antagonist here. it's my favorite one lately.

  • in a new york bethel minute
    in a new york bethel minute

    so are you saying that we should stick with the truth, even if the society doesn't?

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    When Israel, as an organization, was abandoned by God, was it for the action of the collective, majority, or just the leadership? Who paid the price for that judgement?

    If the Watchtower society are the New Israel as they claim, are not their followers obliged to obey all their commands? What if even one of the commands coming from the Watchtower society is evil? Does not the organization itself become liable to judgement? If a follower disobeys his own conscience in favour of the collective, believing he is following Jehovah's commands, is he/she guilty of that sin, or the organization as a whole?

    Shunning is evil. It goes against a mother's nature to abandon her own child over doctrine (I am not talking gross evil here). If a mother overrides her good conscience, obeying rather the edicts of man, is she held, individually, accountable for the sin of abandonment?

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Shunning your child is emotionally a great evil because of all the hurt it causes.

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    Working on some good sh*t right now... (a la Summa Theologica, but not as good, I admit).

  • JV
    JV

    This guy's been trolling around JWO lately, go over there and see some of his posts if you want to know what he's all about

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    Welcome to the board !!

    Are you a troll?

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