the problem has never been the books. The books didn't direct these people to do insane things
Yes they do. You are denying the obvious. It's getting embarrassing.
The best reasonable, rational, intelligent discussion on religion I've ever seen
by TerryWalstrom 303 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cofty
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cofty
a vast majority of followers of these books that don't agree with the crazy people shows the book is not the issue
That's because most christians and muslims know almost nothing about their holy books, and almost none of them actually take them seriously. Thank god for apathy and benevolent hypocrisy.
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Jonathan Drake
the problem has never been the books. The books didn't direct these people to do insane things
Yes they do. You are denying the obvious. It's getting embarrassing.
Well at this point we are getting back to square one here. I've shown very effectively how and why the Quran does not direct people to kill. The one refusing the obvious is not me. The fact is some of you are CHOOSING to reach the same conclusion ISIS does when reading those verses while others CHOOSE to reach a very different one. But the issue isn't literary, the problem is misuse of CHOICE which is something every reader of the book controls- not the book itself. So regarding this, I have thoroughly addressed in previous pages and will not repeat it.
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cofty
You are the only person who thinks you have shown the quran is not a handbook for hatred, intolerance, violence and misogyny.
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Jonathan Drake
coftya minute ago
You are the only person who thinks you have shown the quran is not a handbook for hatred, intolerance, violence and misogyny.
I think we agreed on a previous page however, that it would be best if the books linguistics were modernized to make its meaning more obvious so as to thoroughly set aside any opportunity for drawing such extreme conclusions. I do agree this should happen, because I will concede the average reader of the Quran is not going to put in the research to see what it was talking about when it says the things it says- so it should be amended so as to make this clear. Because I won't deny people do reach the conclusions you are positing, and this should be dealt with by some kind of reform instead of met with being ignored and hoping it goes away.
we established this previously.
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cofty
I will concede the average reader of the Quran is not going to out in the research to see what it was talking about when it says the things it says
Its not about "research". Its about a willingness to deny the obvious and tie yourself in knots pretending Muhammad wasn't really a hate-filled, intolerant, misogynistic child-rapist.
I prefer intellectual honesty.
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cofty
Mo repeatedly raped a 9 year-old child.
He advocated hitting wives who are not sufficiently baarri.
How can you expect anything else he said to be worthy of our attention let alone our respect?
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Viviane
JD, many books of the Bible were written after the death cults had formed. The prior existence argument holds no water.
Why do you have such a problem is recognizing the obvious? You are a Christian and believe in invisible unrpovable people made of undetectable spirit stuff of unknown composition who was a member of one death cult who founded another death cult promising to murder millions.
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Jonathan Drake
You are both using this word, "obvious" freely despite the fact that nothing about this subject is obvious. You're talking about a series of events and a group of people and some specific people who are between 1,415 and 4,000+ years in the past... Lol
the best thing you can do is form a hypothesis that will never have the opportunity to be either proven or disproven unless we invent time travel. Because the only evidence EITHER side has is second hand hearsay. So if you want to talk about what is obvious, the only obvious thing is that we are both arguing different points of view that will never, ever be able to be proven - EVER.
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cofty
nothing about this subject is obvious
The quran advocates hitting a wife who lacks submission - this is obvious. ( you agreed that hitting your wife might be ok sometimes)The author of the book was a child rapist - this is obvious.
The book condemns everybody who does not believe the pedophile prophet to an eternity of torture in hell - this is obvious.