Apostasy - A Racist Movement?

by slimboyfat 81 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot
    The fact that blacks in American JW congregations are disproportionately represented compared to the population as a whole simply reflects the fact that Jehovah's Witnesses are a religion that tends to attract the poor and disadvantaged. Why is this so attractive? Because it offers the dream of getting something people know they probably can't get in real life.

    BRAVO Alan! I read this three times to make sure I understood it correctly, and the more I thought about this---the more I thought back over the past 30 JW years and saw that you were absolutely right from what I have observed.

    I like the way you put things.

    When I became a JW I was poor (low end of the spectrum with an employed hubby and almost five kids in a not-so-great end of the city because that's all we could afford AND landlords that would "take kids") and the KH I belonged to was predominately black.

    We were all in the same boat economically---but the chances of the black families moving to nicer housing and schools was far less likely than our chances of "bettering ourselves". It was just a given. in that (70's) society.

    As many problems that I encountered and endured as a JW-----the racial issue simply was not one of them.

    My God, as I write this I'm flooded with memories of that time; my parents hated JW AND blacks---so they were doubly annoyed with me when I got baptized, and even went so far as to do some parking lot checking after a meeting or two to see the ratio of blacks to whites!!!!

    I won't go on, because I'm already hijacking this topic royally, but all this crap started over Firpo Carr made me think...

    Annie

    Annie

  • toladest
    toladest

    I just want to say that I don't like using the terms black and white when describing people, but for the purpose of this thread I will. I hate the term African American as well, because not all "black people" are from Africa. Why can't we all be just people? Anyway......

    Using the logic in the original post, I would have to say that JW's are almost ALL WHITE! The congergation I grew up in was ALL WHITE for many years. After a while we had one black family (Mother, father two daughters) that moved in. A few years after that we had a hispanic couple move in.

    Oh. but wait! Later I moved to another congergation that was almost all black. So witnesses MUST be mostly Black!

    Wohoooo wait another minute. Now I live in a small town in western Colorado were there are 2 congergations. This town is almost all white and hispanic. So MOST witnesses MUST be white and hispanic!!!! Oh and most JW's MUST be cowboys, since there are SO many cowboys here!

    Oh and Smelly, you must really get around. You said:

    "By and large hispanics and blacks could care less about doctrinal discrepancies. Somwthing they told me themselves. They are less apt to question theology and when faced with contradictions they just shrug it off."

    That is really an ignorant comment. Have you spoken to ALL black and hispanic people? You are making a sweeping statement there. You make it sound as if you believe that black people and hispanics are too lazy or ignorant to worry about doctrinal issues. I know MANY black and hispanic people that are VERY interested in doctrinal issues. I have a close hispanic friend, originally from Chihuahua, Mexico, that has many family members that are Seventh Day Adventist. Doctrinal issues were very important to her in her decision not to go along with that religion. I also know a LOT of white people, many in my own family that are willing to shrug off doctrinal evidence, either because they are too ignorant, too lazy, or just want to be led blindly and not admitt to the farce they have followed all these years.

    The post you started also made a very sweeping statement. Maybe you should rephrase your statements to include only what YOU actually know to be true. Don't assume that because one black person, white person, hispanic, or apostate thinks one way that they all do. That is Racism at its best!

  • G Money
    G Money

    Smelly Onions says that hispanics say there is no abuse among hispanics??? Like they are going to admit it? Was this comment regarding witnesses or hispanics in general. Sexual abuse in my opinion is higher among hispanics although I have no data for the witnesses.
    I believe that sexual abuse among hispanics is higher than among americans in general. Just browse any sex offender database and you'll see that the amount of hispanic offenders is larger than their percentage of the population at large and the largest of any ethnic group in most areas that are not homogenous.
    Often the crime is not reported and the numbers are larger.

  • dorayakii
    dorayakii
    By and large hispanics and blacks could care less about doctrinal discrepancies. Somwthing they told me themselves.

    so let me get this straight smelly... some blacks and hispanics told you they couldn't care less about doctrinal discrepancies?...... a hispanic or black just walked up to you and said, "oh i don't care about doctrinal matters, i prefer to just accept everything spoon-fed" ?

    putain de merde... If you actually listen to what you say before you say it, or read over what you've typed before sending it, if you're reasonable, you will see that what you have written is a complete load of dog's bollocks. o_O

  • G Money
    G Money

    Oh, and in case anybody wanted an explanation for my comments...

    This is due to a machismo attitude in latin american countries coupled with the facts that the police are corrupt / lazy and prosecuting crimes against women is nearly impossible. Also there is a shame and stigma so many don't report crimes. Even ones that lives in the US carry the old world fears and theories with them.

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy

    SBF,

    This really is a silly thread. Note:

    • There is no such thing as an "apostate movement." "Apostates" are merely people who have disagreed with and removed themselves from the JW organization.
    • You have no statistics whatsoever on race among people who have left the JW organization. It is not possible to accurately infer statistics based on "leaders" in a movement that does not exist.
    • As IP_SEC pointed out, charges of racism in early JW doctrine comprises only the tiniest portion of the "apostate" arsenal. Personally, I have never invoked such a charge. I am content to stay in the realm of science.

    It is good to see you on the board, though. And hey, it's never too late to join the movement. :-)

    SNG

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    SNG:
    Would that be the bowel "movement" for the anally retentive?

  • smelly onions
    smelly onions
    Smelly your simplistic and nim witted comments on this thread are as bad as a Dr. Suess book. Never tease a weasel, no never once or twice, no never tease a weasel, no it's not very nice.

    Your own limited life experience, world travel, and higher education show themselves quite clearly in your posts Smelly. You can take the boy out of the Kingdumb Hall but you cannot take the Kingdumb Hall out of the boy.

    Evil force, continue using ad hominems while I deal in facts. Attack the argument not the genius who stated the argument. If your defense has to resort to the person you don't have much of a defense.

    btw, dr seuss is full of knowledge.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5
    Evil force, continue using ad hominems while I deal in facts.


    LMAO!!! this is what fact means: fact (fakt) pronunciationn.

    1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
    2. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.

    3. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.

    4. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.

  • A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.


  • Law. The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact

  • Smelly, I havent seen you do any of this, well maybe number 5 - you believe you know and state facts.



    • Josie ~ "just the facts ma'am"

  • what_Truth?
    what_Truth?

    Slimboyfat. I must admit that your ideas are unique and thought provoking. However, I must admit that I disagree with your reasonings. Heres Why.

    First you say that black people make up roughly 18% of the American JW community while making up 12% of the US population. However the vast majority of JW's live in the North Eastern USA and come from cities that have disproportionaly black populations compared to the rest of the country. Black people making up 20% of JW's in Salt Lake City would mean one thing while black people making up 20% of JW's in Philidelphia would mean another thing altogether.

    There are also very valid reasons why the majority of so-called apostates are white as well. White people hold a lot more power than anyone else in America and therefor have better options to deal with the family and community shunning that goes along with becoming a public apostate. Also, white people tend to be a lot less Christian oriented than black people are. It's a lot less taboo for us to get involved in things like Buhdism, Wicca, black magic, and of course, so-called apostasy.

    The reason why the most vocal apostates you mentioned are white is because most of them were high ranking JW officials at a time when such ranks were off limits to black people. Back when Raymond Franz was in the GB it was an exclusively whiteboy club. Therefor there is no way a black person could write a book from his perspective.

    It should also be mentioned that there are at least a few anti-Jehovah's Witness statements made by black people. The song "Ain't no Mystery" by Brand Nubian has some anti-JW sentiments as do songs by former JW K-OS.

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