Fakin it 'n stuff

by IP_SEC 100 Replies latest members private

• 

  Balsam

  Wow IP,

  Your obviously conflicted. Am sure it is becoming increasingly difficult. Yes I think back to my old congregation and wonder how many like you may have been all around me and I didn't even know it. For the friends to even reveal that they they don't buy into the WTS policy is to cause alarm in someone. There was one couple an Elder and his Wife that supported me desire to leave my 30 year marriage that was verbally abusive. But I saw her reciently in a grocery store in my old home town, and she fled our of range of me, an never offered to speak to me. She had been my best friend. So I have to believe that she was not sincere in her support. She knows I am vey happily married now because she asked me to send her letters so she would know how I was doing. No she has never replied but she said she never would but wanted me to write anyway.

  Anyway only you can decide when you can't cope with it anymore. You have not reached your turning point to exit. How weird it must be to totally not believe the baloney of the WTS yet teach it.

  Balsam
• 

  Sirona

  Listener,

  He is only telling the congregation members what it is they want to hear. He is telling them what the Society has printed for him to tell them, which is exactly what they want and expect. He is not lying or misleading them. If he tried to subtly add apostate teachings to his parts or discussions then he would be lying and misleading them. Even if it would be for their benefit it wouldn't be right.

  I don't agree. Doing a public talk, which he is clearly good at, involves motivating the listeners to continue being JWs. It involves enthusiastically teaching them the JW doctrines. Many of these doctrines are based upon dodgy reasoning and wrongful alterations of the JW bible. He knows this, but he still lets them all follow along while he lies to them. Most elders who leave are ashamed of the influence they've had on those they "shepherded", but IPSEC just wants to carry on for the purposes of this power trip (by his own admission).

  Based on what IPSec said about attending the bookstudy with the Daniel book being studied I would say he is having a tough time and instead of berating him for his course we should be encouraging him to stay true to himself and his family.

  OK I can accept that maybe I was a little harsh. The thing is, we all say on this board how we are disgusted at the GB for misleading us all, how we know that there are high up members of the WTS who know the truth about it all but who continue to influence the cult members! That is exactly what IPSEC is doing. What would he do if he was offered CO position or something? He could go far and influence hundreds if not thousands of people (convention talks?) and his enthusiastic and skilled method of giving these talks could be the catalyst for other new recruits to join, or for those doubting to listen to his "counsel" and decide to remain in the bonds of the cult. He has to accept responsiblity!

  If he is actively planning an exit I realise it does take a bit of time. However it sounds to me as though IPSEC is enjoying being looked up to very much and therefore isn't looking to go anywhere soon. LIttletoe took something like three months to exit, and during that time was honest about his feelings. Totally different.

  Sirona
• 

  Balsam

  IP,

  I have a question. If an family came to you and their child had been badly injured and needed blood what would you say to them? Your holding their child health in your hands, their trusting you. If you give the WTS advice they child could die, but if you encourage them to give it different consideration you might save that child. The WTS really does not allow for this with Elders. To remain an Elder he must support the teachings of the WTS on blood and many other things.

  Does your wife and children know how you feel, I am thinking they don't?

  Sincerely, Balsam
• 

  Nosferatu

  Sirona, once someone has mastered turning off their feelings to something they're doing, it becomes much easier to deal with. I was somewhat in the same situation. I would do talks in the TMS and take time to prepare them. However, my talks did not reflect my feelings. I became very good at telling people what they like to hear. Members of my congregation applauded my talks on more than one occasion. It became something I had to do to fill the gap between that moment in my life and the time that I would leave.

  Even now, I enjoy the "power trip" that I get from being onstage. I go out and sing at the bar, and people love it. However, I have my heart in it this time, and it's much more rewarding. But now, I cannot stand telling people what they want to hear. I became so good at lying to others and shutting my feelings off, I got sick of it. I'm so blatantly honest with people that it sometimes causes them emotional pain. However, I feel much better about causing them emotional pain with truth than emotional happiness with lies.

  IPsec's stage won't last forever. He'll have his turning point, but he's just filling in the time until he can make his exit. I had to do the same thing. It sucks, but it's something that some of us have to do.
• 

  Cordelia

  ip you are right i supose being dfed does provide a golden oppurtunity to finally get away. i understand what sirona is saying but if you have family ties that is so hard, i have lost my husband because i have been dfed, tho things were far from perfect anyway, your wife should love you for who you are not what you believe! easier said than done tho hey? with these jws!!
• 

  fairchild

  Many of you were JWs and came to a point where doubts started to set in. Ask yourself this : Did you leave the org that very day? Did you leave the org that very week? Being a baptized JW and especially a JW with a certain status in the org, such as elder, is not something one can walk away from without consequences. You all know more than anyone else, that walking away can affect your life in a profound way. Read the entire thread titled "how many of you are faders", started by misspeaches. Read that thread and see how much trouble people have gone through to "fade" instead of walking away. They mainly did that so they wouldn't be cut off from their families. I don't know about anyone else, but I can read a lot of fear and a lot of control by the org. in that thread. Leaving the org. is not usually a decision which a person makes overnight. IP-SEC is a member of this board and has helped many of you (including myself), with his encouraging words. He is at that point of the JW road where he has seen that the GB grass isn't all that green after all. Please do not judge him for being "in", while knowing that it is all a lie, because so many of you have been there -perhaps even for several years- trying to find the right way out. Instead of beating him up over being in the org. as an elder while knowing that it is a lie, perhaps you could give him some encouragement and be supportive. This is what JWD is all about after all. Do you think that IP-SEC started this thread to brag about himself being an elder? Or do you think that perhaps he started this thread to hear from people who had a similar experience?
• 

  bisous

  I would be doing IP a disservice to lie to him about my feelings regarding what he is doing. I presented my thoughts in a non-combative manner, acknowledging the situation. But he needs to hear from those of us who were damaged by this cult, what our true feelings are. Perhaps this will urge him on to speedy action.

  I doubt his wife or JW familiars would be honest with him about any doubts they have or encourage him otherwise as they are blinded to the truth.

  From what I've read of his posts, he is here at JWD for a refreshing bout of honesty and learning. Hearing us say ... awww poor IP, good job, hang in there; without any counterbalancing comments about the potential harm he is doing would be as disingenuous as his actions while in the hall.

  Sometimes the REAL truth hurts.
• 

  SixofNine

  : Did you leave the org that very day?

  The very day that I realized that the blood policy was sustained by deception, thereby killing people, thereby proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the religion has zero connection to god, I left the org in the sense that I never went to another meeting, and I even told a witness very close to me that "I'll probably always believe 95% of the same things you do, but I'll never consider myself a Jehovah's Witness again" (a month or two later and, of course, I didn't even believe 5% of the things Witnesses believe).

  Btw, fairchild, I'm not wholesale condemning IPSec; you're right, I don't have enough information to do that. But as far as providing him "encouragement", well, c'mon... that strains credulity. The man doesn't need any. He already knows. That's it. End of story. You got the info, you choose what to do with it. If what he is doing with it is finding a way to keep his family intact and/or help get others thinking, I can respect that. If what he is doing is feeding off the adoration of decieved cult victims via a new deception, mainly to satiate his ego, I can't respect that.
• 

  Abaddon

  Ooooo, you have yourself a quandry there IP.

  Now, you have familial reasons for staying, and egoistical reasons for staying, but primarily you're scared of leaving. The well known lie is more comforting than the unknown reality. You've a nice little comfort zone there.

  You are being, let me make it clear, completely understandable and human as far as your reasons for not going go. Many would have similar quandries.

  But, as you are PART of the Borganisation, not some little rank&filer doing a fade off the back row into freedom, by staying you are not being humane to your fellow cultist, nor is your vasilation really justifiable. You teach and enforce a belief system you know is wrong. That's not nice.

  It isn't doing you any good; your self respect must be non-existent, even for a JW. Just because you have developed coping mechanisms doesn't mean using those coping mechanisms are doing you any good.

  And obviously you are helping spread a nasty little cultic belief system, and enforce it's silly laws. Which can't help any who recieve your hypocritical teaching or council.

  I know perfectly well I could walk into any cong of JW's, be welcomed back to the fold, be made a MS in less than two years and an Elder shortly thereafter. I am a damn good public speaker, am good at teaching, and although I never got to be an Elder, I'm sure I would be a compassionate and loving one.

  But I'd rather cut my balls off and eat them. Not only can I not do that to myself; I can't do it to the people I would be deceiving., even if it did mean I could have a Cong think I was the bees knees and have my pick of the fresh pioneer sisters.

  You were decieved, now you are not, but you choose to continue the deception.

  There's an old saying 'a live dog is better off than a dead lion'. In your case I think it is 'an ex-elder ex-JW is better off than a well regarded Elder and JW'.

  Anyways, if you are so essential to the cong, imagine the shockwaves if you stood down.

  If you're so good at public speaking, think of what fun you could have with a final public talk; the sort where everything fits together in the final few minutes and is vastly different to what the listeners expect. Imagine if you could pull that off TWICE in one day.

  There are plenty of ways out of your impasse, and the movement you need is on your shoulder.

  You can go quietly, stand down, fade. You can go in a blaze of glory and see how many you can 'save'. You can tell your wife you paid a hooker for a blow job and be unrepentant and have the problem taken from your hands

  But you know as well as I that you can't stay for much longer.

  All the best; I do understand why you stay but feel I should be straight with you why this is not nearly as justifiable a thing as you are telling yourself it is.

  You're not being 'bad', but you are being weak, and your life post-cult will be a lot happier the shorter this weakness continues.

  Again, all the best
• 

  undercover

  I haven't taken the time to read all the responses so if I'm repeating someone, sorry...

  The last meeting I went to, I looked around and tried to see if I could tell if anyone was there in body only and really had already checked out mentally as far as the teachings. It was almost impossible because everyone seemed so bored. But during the final prayer I saw some interesting things.

  All my life I had always bowed my head and closed my eyes. I assumed everyone else did too. But now that I'm out and don't feel the need to fake prayer to a non-entity I like to look around and see whats going on. I was surprised at the number of people who were not taking the prayer seriously. Some were looking around, some were playing with their kids, some were picking their nose, some were looking outside, several made eye contact with me. I wondered if they were wondering the same thing about me that I was wondering about them...does he know the truth about "the truth"?