Fakin it 'n stuff

by IP_SEC 100 Replies latest members private

• 

  IP_SEC

  Hey guys,

  No need to argue anything here. Sixy, Bisious, and Siriona are correct to a degree. I hate the word power, I find power hungry people offensive, but if one sits back and looks at what I do objectively, then ya it kinda does have to do with power. You know, people have to think what I tell em, do what I say.

  So let me just clairify somethings. Why.

  1. Power: *cringes* Yes it is a built in trip to be respected, feared, and beloved all in a tight package. This is waning in my case. It is becoming less of a reason to do anything, but it is somewhat addictive, takes time to evolve past it, for me anyhow. I freely admit that, now you can dislike me for it and thats cool, but in my case its taking time to get over.

  2. Like Jiminy Cricket says: There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Fading is not an option. To give up responsibilities with no good 'reason' right now would prompt an investigation. "Has he become involved in wrong doing and now his conscience won't let him serve?" Believe me it would. If we had a gazillion elders, I could give up stuff in the name of giving them something to do, but we dont so, I just sit on it. Just leaving has not been an option for my own sake. I have no friends outside the org. It takes time to build relationships with people. I had been hoping that some of my immediate family would respond too, but the ones I've told like my brother and wife have ended up disasters. There is also a need to do as much damage as possible before leaving. I am not a spewer of Watchtower Propaganda. I've been subtly trying to encourage people in my study group to do the kind of research that led me to this point. I had the Special talk, I created a completely new talk just based on the theme, I do this with all my talks. I dont give the WT advice on things. I tell people to use the space god put betwixted their ears to make their own descisions.

  So I dunno, those are my reasons, you may not like them, but thats all I've got.
• 

  jillbedford

  I would say you enjoy the glory of being used so much within the organization. Manipulating the minds of all you listen to your JW propaganda.

  I doubt it is all that painful for you.

  You are just like the pharisees in Jesus day.

  You should be ashamed of yourself!! You are despicable!!!

  How do you sleep at night or even look at yourself in the mirror?
• 

  Abaddon

  IP, hopefully you will understand there is a difference between reasons and excuses.

  You don't have power; all you are doing is abusing power. Does that help your love of if wane faster?

  There isn't a perfect solution. Eggs will be broken. I hope you can get over this. "Just leaving has not been an option for my own sake. I have no friends outside the org" is not a unique quandry, it's what we all faced, yet most of us are out.

  I know that having an evening job in a nightclub (to help ends meet) helped me meet co-workers and, in the more social environment common to workers in such places, at least have SOME people I knew when I left. That was a great help to me. Maybe you could develop a hobby and join a club?

  You need to make yourself a plan man. I took me a year, but the day in September I had a flat to move into was my last day of married life, and the meeting on the Sunday before was the last I ever attended. Without planning, you'll drift and get progressively unhappier with the lie you live; in your own self interest it is inadvisable to let this happen.

  Better to have no friends and dignity than friends and shame.
• 

  LittleToe

  Dilemma, dilemma, dilemma.

  I find it difficult to condemn anyone, because I fully accept that I am blithely unaware of all the circumstances in anyone's life. Hence, I prefer not to judge.

  I do know how difficult it can be, to be a central pillar of a congregation that you have grown with, and yet know it was false. When I came to that realisation, that enough fundamental things were wrong for me to no longer be a JW, I immediately made plans to leave. It took a further four months, and the internal pressures got greater and greater. Towards the end I was almost climbing the walls as I attempted not to say anything too "heretical" but at the same time to remain true to my new convictions.

  I love giving talks and helping people.

  I can understand that. I was raised in it and knew nothing else. A lot of my self-identity was wrapped up in it. I genuinely thought I was doing "good" and helping people. The realisation that I was wrong was pretty devastating. I soon started working on my own in FS, as much as possible, so that I didn't have to spew the party line.

  The adoration of the friends will be extremely difficult to lose.

  To be honest I never thought like that. I was never truly in the zone of caring what people thought of me, but rather what I believed was God's opinion of me. Whilst it's nice to have the occasional affirmation, anything more is vanity and a striving after wind. It blows hot and cold - ask any celebrity.

  I was glad to have such "adoration"(??) behind me, as it was odious and empty.

  In church circles (plural) I find it mildly embarrassing to be refered to as the "JW". I'd rather just be accepted as another human-being, no better or worse than another. We all do what we feel we have to, in this life. I just hope that all my intentions prove true and the results beneficial. Unfortunately I have a propensity to screw up, however I do take whatever opportunities I am offered to offer a counter-witness, and for me that is enough to endure the shame of having been a sucker.

  If the tale of our lives can help others to find the fortitude to leave the mental shackles, then I believe that's a chapter of life lived well. And yet, ironically, my usual advise is for folks not to DA, but just to walk away. If family wish to disown, then that's their issue, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend giving them such an excuse. The price for my actions was high - but each must count the cost for themselves.

  If we can look in the mirror each morning and night and hold our heads up reasonably high, without self-illusion, maybe we have something of value. If not, then I suspect an internal decay begins.

  I believe we are here to learn - what have you learnt?
• 

  Nosferatu

  I'm starting to wonder if any of you realize what IPsec could be facing if he should leave immediately (even though we don't know all the facts).

  Many people build their life on the foundation of other people. Many will build their life on the foundation (existance) of their girlfriends / boyfriends, wives / husbands. They'll then construct their building adding assets, children, emotional support, and so on to their life. However, if the person they've built their life upon shows signs of leaving, their building of life will start to crumble. When the person does leave, the entire building of life will collapse.

  This is no different when you build your life upon the foundation of false religion such as the WTS. Now, IPsec has probably built a lot on top of his foundation. He has his friends, his family (wife and possibly children) and built upon that is his home, his assets, his financial situation, etc. IPsec's building has started to crumble, and it seems as if he's trying to slow the crumbling rather than have everything come crashing down at once (by immediately leaving the WTS).

  I have no clue if he's trying to save a few bricks to build his new life (hopefully on the foundation of himself), but I hope to hell he's got a plan in place. If he's already begun constructing a new life before the old one comes crashing down, he'll be much better off.

  The bigger you've built your life, the harder it's going to come crashing down (and the more devastating it will be to deal with)

  I doubt that IPsec is continuing to be an elder for selfish reasons. If he were to be really selfish, he'd just abandon his family and start over again, leaving them behind.
• 

  LittleToe

  1. Power: *cringes* Yes it is a built in trip to be respected, feared, and beloved all in a tight package. This is waning in my case. It is becoming less of a reason to do anything, but it is somewhat addictive, takes time to evolve past it, for me anyhow. I freely admit that, now you can dislike me for it and thats cool, but in my case its taking time to get over.

  Is it possible to wean, while continuing to enjoy the teat?

  2. Like Jiminy Cricket says: There's a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Fading is not an option. To give up responsibilities with no good 'reason' right now would prompt an investigation. "Has he become involved in wrong doing and now his conscience won't let him serve?" Believe me it would. If we had a gazillion elders, I could give up stuff in the name of giving them something to do, but we dont so, I just sit on it. Just leaving has not been an option for my own sake. I have no friends outside the org. It takes time to build relationships with people. I had been hoping that some of my immediate family would respond too, but the ones I've told like my brother and wife have ended up disasters. There is also a need to do as much damage as possible before leaving. I am not a spewer of Watchtower Propaganda. I've been subtly trying to encourage people in my study group to do the kind of research that led me to this point. I had the Special talk, I created a completely new talk just based on the theme, I do this with all my talks. I dont give the WT advice on things. I tell people to use the space god put betwixted their ears to make their own descisions.

  There are at least two issues here, IMHO. One is the cost of leaving, which "may" be high, and another is the "potential" success of helping others think for themselves. Both are based on assuptions

  1. There are many ways to leave, and the best one appears to be "burnt-out-elder syndrome", followed by "terrible-depression syndrome". The result is that they might think you mentally weak, but who cares if they desire to maintain that illusion and your company, right? The end goal is surely freedom, and after a while you may well attain that, as you are forgotten. Can you "take" being forgotten?
  2. I was being groomed for CO work and considered what you appear to be attempting. I decided that it would be ineffective and that I would have to live a life of continuous lack of integrity. Can you really take this long-term?

  These are only questions and food for thought - no advise. We each make our own decisions and bear the consequences.
  Good luck!
• 

  TheListener

  Ip,

  Like Abaddon said,

  You need to make yourself a plan man

  You're right about stopping the elder privileges. It is the single most dificult thing to do without raising any questions. That's why you have to develop a plan. These plans may be long term but at least you have a goal that you're striving to attain. Stress is the easiest to complain about. Start small and work it up bigger and bigger and in the matter of months or at most a year you'll be off the body and they'll have pity for you. The biggest obstacle to any sort of plan like this is your wife. At any point during the planned fade she can turn you in and the whole thing comes crashing down. That's why part of the plan has to be to reassure her that you're love for the truth and the stress you're under has nothing to do with her. Show her how great a husband you can be when you're happy and not so stressed. She may surprise you and let you be yourself as long as she feels secure.

  But, Ip, nothing will happen without a plan. Besides I truly feel it is better to be true to yourself and lonely than forever following the WTS directions and miserable.

  I made my plan two years ago and I was able to step aside almost 5 weeks (or so) ago. Our situations are eerily similar. I know the long long long fade isn't for everyone, but it is the way that gives you the highest likelihood of maintaining your staunch dub wife and family.
• 

  bisous

  We each make our own decisions and bear the consequences.

  This is true. IP SEC has stated his position clearly. Obviously it is his life. IP also started this thread, which will result in responders rendering comments and opinions, which may not necessarily align with his.

  The majority of us have faced the consequences of a decision to disassociate ourselves from the JW Cult and its followers. It wasn't easy for any of us ... we had our own obstacles, family issues, friendships etc. to rebuild. It is an overwhelming prospect indeed and not for the faint of heart.
• 

  Abaddon

  Let's not forget that we have the privilege of speaking freely; I think all of us wish IP the best of luck in achieving that same freedom.
• 

  Midget-Sasquatch

  IPSec:

  You're being very open with us and I think you are also trying to be honest about all of your motives. I haven't walked a mile in your shoes so I'm not going to judge you.

  I can understand your sitch to an extent, since I was reluctantly made an MS. It stinks that because of family etc., some of us are coerced players in this weird game of Survivor: WTS. I admire the skill you have to cope and play at the level you are at, but I'd seriously ponder on what Abaddon said about one's self-respect in this case. He's right on the money with it.

  You'll never regret just stepping down. It was sorta embarassing and also a bit self degrading for me, but most of the dissonance disappears. I can only imagine how much you'd be offloading compared to the little bit I groaned over as just an MS with mostly paper work and simple TMS parts/announcements.. LittleToe's suggestion of burn-out looks like your best option.