by logansrun 74 Replies latest forum announcements
PS You describe perfectly why shunning is abusive. It is controlling of the victim and of those who have to do the shunning. And once DFed and reinstated the mark always stay there.I'm so glad you are freeing yourself
Thank-you very much Lady Lee,
purps
Yeah Purple one, I know from where you come.
If someone had personally damaged you ,caused you a large loss of some kind, YOUR decision to shun that INDIVIDUAL is a normal and pragmatic thing to do.
But to DECLARE to about 6 million people that this individual is to be shunned by all, including close family and for reasons not explained to anyone, is nothing short of attempted destruction of this person.
If in no way other than emotionally and mentally. The no explanation clause will only leave the most awful acts IMAGINED, against God as the reason for this action. Usually it will be something of a sexual nature of the worst IMAGINED.
Again the members of the wbts are not living in reality. They live in a dream world of promises IN THEIR IMAGINATION.
Reality would have caused people to offer you helpful counsel and acceptance of your so called sins as the probable outcome of some one in distress. They would also realize that this same thing could happen to them under these circumstances and NOT look at you as one needing punishment and degradation.
Outoftheorg
Great thread.
Were they to come back into my life begging for a relationship, I'd tell them to hit the trail.
Jeannie: I am glad my sister did not say that to me. I shunned her for years, when I left, she welcomed me with open arms, no questions asked. I apologize to her whenever the opportunity presents itself, but it will never make up for what I took from her. I love her so much, always did and always will. Our relationship grows stronger everyday. I never stopped loving her, I was just not allowed to show it. That is how I felt. I didn't feel like the decision about whether or not to shun her was mine to make. I was ignorant of so many things, and she understands that now.
Jez
The Nuremburg trials proved this out...... there is no excuse for inhumane behaviour...
You can't bury your conscience and then blame it on being a zealot. We (you ) were guilty and there is no option but to apologize and not make excuses... it's the best that can be done... and don't repeat it.
I NEVER shunned as a Dub... no matter what public opinion felt.
How do you reconcile that with "love your enemy"? Or the Good Samaritan? or the Prodigal Son? Heck the nation of Israel's entire history!
Sincerity DOES NOT equal innocence. Shunners are "guilty", misguided yes, but still GUILTY of violating the laws of humanity. Especially toward those that have done nothing worthy of being shunned. (ie/ pedophiles, rapists, murderers, persistent liars.)
What about the abusive husband or father that gives their "abuse" (beatings, verbal assaults etc.) all because " I love you so much, that you make me do this to you.." No body buys that line of crap...
u/d
Jeannie: I am glad my sister did not say that to me. I shunned her for years, when I left, she welcomed me with open arms, no questions asked. I apologize to her whenever the opportunity presents itself, but it will never make up for what I took from her. I love her so much, always did and always will. Our relationship grows stronger everyday. I never stopped loving her, I was just not allowed to show it. That is how I felt. I didn't feel like the decision about whether or not to shun her was mine to make. I was ignorant of so many things, and she understands that now.
I am glad that your sister did not end up as cold as I. My circumstance is that my sisters, brothers, mother and father knew what had gone on in my life. The years that I begged the elders for help, the times that I was threatened with disciplinary action should I dare to go to the police and have my ex arrested. I was beaten, abused, ignored, and worse for 15 years all along with the full knowledge of the elders of the willits congregation and my family.
For them to disfellowship me after I had divorced my husband and moved on to a relationship with another man who was a decent person was cruel and un-Christain in the extreme. My family knows this, and chose to take the side of *evil* by shunning me.
It is evil behavior, and I do not want evil people in my life any longer. Should they come to their senses and leave the borg, that's great. However, I do not want them to ever knock on my door. It will not be opened...
J
Those that shun us do not necessarily deserve our anger, but our sympathy.
That kind of thinking disgusts me. Shunning is not different from stoning. If there weren't laws, our relatives would stone us to death.
Jeannie, I'm with you. I'm done with the bastards. They could all leave the Watch Tower tomorrow and I don't care. These people have been mean and resentful to us and they are not wanted or needed. Our gifts to them go to others. Our love, our time, and our resources go to people who are nice to us.
We are not people who will be treated mean and insulted without retaliating.
Jeannie: Your situation sounds almost exactly like mine, right down to the 14 years of abuse, he was actually arrested finally, and publically reproved only. When I moved on and got remarried (they said I had a scriptual seperation, gee thanks, but could never remarry, only reconcile with the abuser) I was disfellowshipped. I know how you feel.
Also: I never fanatically shunnd my sister when she was df'ed and I was still a witness. I was involved in her life, just not enough, I held back because of the belief that I would somehow bring her BACK to God, how ignorant of me. Now, I have a brother that has not spoken to me or my kids in almost 4 years and a mother that is the same, although she will throw me a few crumbs. I agree with you and Gary, that they will NEVER ever be involved in my life again. This is something that I will never be able to get over. I just know that if my sister took the hard line of never having me, well we both would have continued to lose out.
Jez
Jeannie, I hate to be blunt but you seem extremely ignorant of how susceptible people are to social engineering.Don't be rude, dude. I am not ignorant, I simply hold to the opinion that people are ultimately responsible for their own choices. If someone follows orders on a battle field and is later brought up on war crimes charges, the old "I was just following orders" defense does not hold up. Why should we let people who exercise abusive behavior off the hook by giving them a pass as "brainwashed?" I was too, but I woke up and it was before I was disfellowshipped in spite of being raised in their "culture" so don't go there with me. People who don't wake up don't want to wake up. They'll just follow orders in order to benefit themselves with some future reward despite the hurt it causes others. It's an incredibly self-centered religion. How many do you think would stay if they did not dangle the carrot of something that we all want; life forever in a paradise earth where our every hearts desire is fulfilled.
Jeannie, THAT is a great comparison. Excellent post.
Do JWs even really know the meaning of "unconditional" love? I think not. Think about the time when you were a JW. If you were spiritually strong (gag!) meaning you went out in service regularly, attended all the meetings, commented, etc. it seemed like you received more love from those in the congregation. But if you stopped doing these things or even went a step further and did things that were in the "gray area" (i.e. going to college) suddenly that love began to fade.
After being out for several years and have made a few really, close friends. It amazes me the differnce between JWs I knew and these real friends, esp. when you're down.
Back to Bradley's question....they don't truly love us. If they did, they wouldn't shun us. When I was an elder there was a situation with an older brother who's son was df'd. We found out that this brother was visiting his df'd son. We sat down with him and told him that he cannot do this or he'd be in trouble. His response? In so many words he said "stick it up your ass. He's my son."
Any JW that who does differntly, doesn't love their family member or friend.
