Do those that shun us not love us? (page 2)

logansrun

I strongly disagree. Let's take your argument to the limit. A Jehovah's Witness in Atlanta several years back killed his family to ensure they recieved the reserrection hope. Was killing his family a loving thing to do. Probably not, since it is illegal.

Shunning is a form of emotional abuse, since it is intended to hurt the shunned one. Hurting another person is NEVER loving.

I guess those that protect child molesters in the organization are showing love as well by your definition.

Well, let's take your line of reasoing to it's logical conclusion. Does a child feel hurt when their parents punish him for his/her own good in the long run? Yes -- I felt hurt when I was punished in this way when I was a kid. Does that mean my parents did not love me? Nevertheless, I believe shunning is not an appropriate, or even effective, form of showing love for someone else. But, just because someone -- under great pressure to conform! -- performs one unloving act towards you, does not mean that the totality of how they view you is unloving. Bringing the child-molestation issue, or extreme cases like murder,into this discussion is comparing apples to oranges. B.

garybuss

To me, love is action, like a hug. If I say I hug you but I never hug you, do I hug you? I say I hug you. I'm sad I don't hug you, but do I hug you if I don't hug you?

How about if I say I feed you but I never bring you any food? Do you feel fed? Did I feed you?

That's just my definition of love. Some people can look at a menu and feel like they just ate, I can't.

My relatives who are unlovable by me are not loved by me because they are unlovable (by me). I don't love them. Do I have evidence that they love me? Nope! I have evidence that they don't. I don't care what they think or what they feel, I only care how they treat me.

logansrun

Well Gary, can you hate someone without taking action against them?

B.

garybuss

Well Gary, can you hate someone without taking action against them?

No

Elsewhere

It is called being "Brain Washed". Shunning a person in "love" is no different than burning a heretic at the stake in order to save them from the flames of hell... or performing a human sacrifice in order to appease a deity.

The bottom line is this: Most humans are born with the desire to do "good". The problem is that "good" is not defined for us by instinct. Because of this we must discover on our own or be taught by someone else what "good" is. At the time you had been taught that shunning a person is "good", which is why you did it.

jeanniebeanz

Well Gary, can you hate someone without taking action against them?

If I hate someone, I just shun them. It's an action, so I guess I cannot hate someone without taking an action against them...

J

garybuss

Hate without action is not hate, it's resentment.

jeanniebeanz

It is so painful to think that people who raised us, or who we grew up with, who tell us they love us, actually don't love us that we make up excuses for them.

It soothes us somehow to say things like, "Oh, they do care. They just can't go against the organization."

Or, "My friend loves me and is so hurt by my evil doubting of the crazy old men in Brooklyn who he knows tells lies! If only I had been able to bury my own thinking power a little deeper and taken heavy doses of Prozac, I would have been able to stay and not hurt my friend so deeply. What's wrong with me?"

Or, "Mom and Dad love me. They just hope that by taking everything that I ever held dear away from me and making me want to die, that I'll lie to myself, God and the organization, whore out my conscience and go back to the cult."

So loving, I must say...

J

SixofNine

I suppose some witnesses shun because of their love for Jah, but I think the Grand Prize of Paradise is the motivating factor in most cases. Of course, no one does anything emotional for a single, purely linear, reason, but rather a hodgepodge of (in this case, bad) reasoning and emotions.

Still, I feel safe in saying that it's rare that love for the shunned is the motivating factor behind the shunning. Sometimes, yes, but not very often, and it's usually a half-hearted shunning when that happens.

This forum is full of examples of all types of JW shunned individuals. Some who's family barely shuns them at all, and some who haven't spoken to their family in 10 years. I think it's pretty clear whose family is more loving.

So do they love us? Sure, whatever. After the WT is thru with someone, they can pretty much rationalize anything as "loving", simply by sticking it in one of their multitudinous catagories of "love". "Principled" love is ice cold poison in the hands and heart of a Jehovah's Witness who sees you as potentially blocking his line of sight to the big Prize-of-Paradise.

For all their railings against worldly wealth and materialism, they've somehow managed to create the most materialistic religion you could imagine.

greendawn

I think that we also have here the question that most people get expelled and shunned in an unbiblical way, first those that criticise the petty minded leadership then those who are expeled for all sorts of really silly things like voting, smoking, celebating birthdays . Shouldn't the JWs know deep down that this sort of behaviour is wrong?

Do those that shun us not love us?

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