Do those that shun us not love us? (page 3)

garybuss

If hate is love, then yeah . . . my relatives love me. lol

logansrun

Gary,

Do you hate Adolph Hitler? How about Saddam Hussein? What actions have you taken against them of late?

Jeannie,

It is so painful to think that people who raised us, or who we grew up with, who tell us they love us, actually don't love us that we make up excuses for them.

It soothes us somehow to say things like, "Oh, they do care. They just can't go against the organization."

Jeannie, I hate to be blunt but you seem extremely ignorant of how susceptible people are to social engineering. When you get a chance, do a "Google" search under "Stanley Milgram" and see what you find. We are not as free as we think. People don't always act in the right way, even if they have good intentions! Look at Thomas Jefferson: He talked of the equality of all men and yet owned slaves. People are bound by many things, including culture. The Witness system is, in a sense, a culture.

Or, "Mom and Dad love me. They just hope that by taking everything that I ever held dear away from me and making me want to die, that I'll lie to myself, God and the organization, whore out my conscience and go back to the cult."

They do this -- shun you, make you "want to die" -- because they don't want you to die...at Armageddon. I think it's totally nuts, but it's as true as a nutty Pentacostal parent railing against their atheist child because they don't want her to be sent to the fires of hell. Give me a break!

garybuss

Gary,
Do you hate Adolph Hitler? How about Saddam Hussein?

No! I condone them both.

Bryan

You are correct! That's how deep the brainwashing goes. Parents who deeply love their children will shun them because they love them... because they are told to by the Tower.

Bryan

Have You Seen My Mother

logansrun

There's been some excellent points made, especially Six and Elsewhere. My point is that it does not logically follow that just because someone shuns you that they do not love you in any way. It's a very, very complex situation, as is all human emotion. Taking the "they hate me now, so I hate them back" attitude is an all to simplistic gut-reaction.

B.

jeanniebeanz

Jeannie, I hate to be blunt but you seem extremely ignorant of how susceptible people are to social engineering.

Don't be rude, dude. I am not ignorant, I simply hold to the opinion that people are ultimately responsible for their own choices. If someone follows orders on a battle field and is later brought up on war crimes charges, the old "I was just following orders" defense does not hold up. Why should we let people who exercise abusive behavior off the hook by giving them a pass as "brainwashed?" I was too, but I woke up and it was before I was disfellowshipped in spite of being raised in their "culture" so don't go there with me. People who don't wake up don't want to wake up. They'll just follow orders in order to benefit themselves with some future reward despite the hurt it causes others. It's an incredibly self-centered religion. How many do you think would stay if they did not dangle the carrot of something that we all want; life forever in a paradise earth where our every hearts desire is fulfilled.

They do this -- shun you, make you "want to die" -- because they don't want you to die...at Armageddon.

Again, it's no excuse. Good intentions are worthless if the results are evil. But of course, that's just one ignorant womans opinion... J

outoftheorg

I have had jw's "not family" whose actions and the expression on their face truly displayed a hatred for me.

I have had those who knew these individuals tell me that they speak of me as an evil person deserving of death.

I had "dead now" two sisters, siblings, who would go out of their way to show how glad they were to see my children and treat me as if I was not there.

I have a brother and many nieces and nephews who used to come and visit and go on vacation with.

Now they treat me as if I were dead and speak to my children about how awful and demented I must be.

Their actions and treatment of me can only come from hateful people. You can give them all the excuses you like. But it is THEIR CHOICE AND THEIR ACTIONS I am not to blame for their feelings or actions as they would like to believe.

I have had people who I had to wrestle down and club and handcuff them and take to jail, show more respect and careing for me than the shunners.

The shunner enjoys this as in a subtle and sick way. It makes them feel superior and feel as if GOD and or the wbts loves them and plans on killing me.

There is nothing loving about shunning others or being shunned. The teachings of the wbts tells the believer that this is an effort of love to bring the sinner back to the cult. Yet another sick twisted use of the human pride and longing for acceptance to control the masses.

Outoftheorg

Lady Lee

Just because people don't understand the difference between abuse and a loving expression of feeling doesn't mean they don't have positive feelings.

Many parents think that spanking their child is a good way to discipline them. People who were beaten as kids will say "I deserved it" and "My parents did the best they could"

I agree it isn't a good excuse but for people who have been told that God Himself says this is how you show loving concern for your child.

Heck I used to spank my kids when I was a JW! Fortunately for them and me once I left the WTS I found healthier ways to discipline them. But at the time - that was all I knew and I was told it was sanctioned by God.

That being said, I have an aunt who refuses to shun her DFed daughter and will happily tell that to any elder. Her sister (my mother) on the other hand, still buys the discipline thing hook line and sinker. But then, my mother still thinks beating children is OK.

logansrun

Wow. I just have to say sometimes I am amazed at people's short-sightedness and resentment.

Good night.

Bradley

lilbit

Having read both sides of the issue. I think everyone has valid points. I agree that there are many brainwashed JWs that really do think they are acting out of love. I also think anyone with a freethinking brain can see how unloving it really is. I do feel sorry for they brainwashed ones because for most of them it really does tear them apart to shun their loved ones

When I was still a JW I never could really shun anyone I even smiled at the df'd people that I didnt even know

Do those that shun us not love us?

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