How do you think you will handle your own death? . . . . . [language alert]

by nicolaou 56 Replies latest social physical

  • my-journey
    my-journey
    Moanzy: That is precisely why I think the "soul sleep" or being remembered in God's memory is wrong. I don't know what the answer is or what the Truth of death is really is. What I lean towards is the Near-death experiences and that perhaps we do go to heaven right away. Maybe God does allow us to see our families or sort of "check in " on them. I don't think that after we die and years down the road when our children are all grown up and we've missed out on their growing up period, then God resurrects us is at all fair.

    Interesting thoughts. I have no clue myself. I probably have the least idea here.

    However, your ideas seem to favour "what would be nice" rather than what I feel YOU feel is most likely. Am I completely wrong? If so, I apologize. It's just that, the impression from your post, it sounds naively optimistic (maybe that's just coz I'm a "recovering" pessimist).

    The line about "[God might let us] sort of "check in" on them", to me sounds so under-thought through and fuelled by what would be "nice". It almost sounds like someone saying: "maybe there is no devil...maybe there are no sins...maybe ..etc" - like, you just thought it through enough to bring you comfort, but not thoroughly enough to see if it could be a possibility. Could you expand on this please? Maybe it was expressed too briefly for me to understand.

    Q: Do you still believe in the Bible? Do you think it's been changed or that we are understanding it wrong? It talks about death, but you seem to have disregarded that, so maybe you think the Bible is incorrect in part???

    Thanks for reading.

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas

    Talesin, thank you for your pm, and feel free to send them whenever you like. However, I can receive but not send pm's on the Apple and browser I use, so if you like you may email me anytime at
    [email protected]

    Brother Ian, I hope many read your reply to this thread. Your words are very beautiful and clear, as if they are from one who is really standing here, rather than from someone who is just gazing from afar through a sphincter of the mind.


    j

  • my-journey
    my-journey
    FMZ: Death is overrated. The only way to face death is to face life. You aren't scared of dying, you are scared of never having lived.

    Hi, FMZ.

    I don't think death is overrated. For one, it's the most "final" and conclusive state of being there is (for now). Secondly, it applies to everyone - it unites us if you will (I may not have a dog called Mike, like you (for example!) but we are both going to die), and can come at any time. Sex is more overrated than death, I'm sure you'll agree: you can die a virgin - but you can't live without dying in the end.

    Next, a Q. What do you mean by "the only way to face death is to face life"? That's a bit too "soundbitey" for me, and actually doesn't express as much as it seems to on the surface. Do you mean "face life" as in: follow a Christian path? do whatever you feel like? come to terms with life's sadness? I don't actually know what you mean by this.

    Next, your next comment is also a bit too soundbitey. I hope you're not gonna come back at me angrily - this is just my opinion, which may be wrong, ok? I feel that when humans stray too far away from God - be it the RC God, the JW God, the Muslim God, etc and the reasonings, logic and sayings therein, we begin to become overly "trusting" of human's "summing up" of what life is, and we don't actually know that much about it. We try to replace Godly wisdom with soundbitey oneliners that don't apply to as many people as we would have ourselves believe.

    "You aren't scared of dying, you are scared of never having lived" - Close!

    I'm not scared of never having lived. I'm saddened that I don't seem to have the chance to live how I want, or how I expected.

    However, your comment is too blanket. What about the people that ARE living how they want and ARE happy? They HAVE "lived", yet, some of them may be scared about what happens after death because they know nothing about it. Or maybe, they aren't living "right" - even according to their own moral standards, and are unsure if there will be any "recompense" or accounting for how they lived. These people may call in a priest or go and confess or something when they know their time is short because ...they are scared of dying. Not so much, the process, but what lays after.

    Then just go around hospices and ask the "residents" if they aren't scared of dying, and you'll probably go home and immediately edit your post: those people are probably petrified of the actual dying process. They may choke in their sleep, suffocate, die in agony or whatever.

    So these human-wisdom soundbites make you look smart on the forum and such but I don't think they sum up the situation for everyone. They aren't based on the feelings of everyone, so how could these comments be even close to a universal truth?

  • Dansk
    Dansk
    Brother Ian, I hope many read your reply to this thread. Your words are very beautiful and clear, as if they are from one who is really standing here, rather than from someone who is just gazing from afar through a sphincter of the mind.

    Thank you, J. If truth be known your posts to this thread encouraged me to post a reply of my own. Good to hear from you again.

    With kindred spirit,

    Ian

  • doogie
    doogie

    my-journey:

    The line about "[God might let us] sort of "check in" on them", to me sounds so under-thought through and fuelled by what would be "nice". It almost sounds like someone saying: "maybe there is no devil...maybe there are no sins...maybe ..etc" - like, you just thought it through enough to bring you comfort, but not thoroughly enough to see if it could be a possibility.

    maybe i'm the only one, but i was slightly offended by your comments to moanzy. what is "under-thought through" to you could be a deeply held conviction to another (whether or not you agree is beside the point). in any case, i fail to see how it's your place to determine the TRUE motivation for her comments anyway. any thoughts of death are pure speculation because (unless i'm unaware of some recent break-through) there is no proof of anything after death. so what's the difference to you if others think about what might be "nice" to experience after death?

  • my-journey
    my-journey

    You missed my point - or I didn't state it clear enough:

    I didn't mean to speculate about the "validity" of her opinion ITSELF. Rather, her OWN believing in it. and her lack of desire to think it through.

    doogie: what is "under-thought through" to you could be a deeply held conviction to another

    That's just it. To me, it didn't seem as if like a "deeply-held conviction" to her. If she said:

    "I believe God let's us check in on our family like some happy blissful arrangement",

    ... I wouldn't have said anything. The reason I commented on her post is because it came across more like:

    "Well, without developing this thought much farther than what I'm about write here, I'd like to think that the following happens even though deep-down I don't believe it: God let's us check in on our family like some happy blissful arrangement"...

    it came off that way to me, but I'm sure she'll clarify the matter when she sees this.

    doogie: so what's the difference to you if others think about what might be "nice" to experience after death?

    That's where I got confused. I didn't know if she was answering: "What happens to you after death?" or "What would like to think happens after death?" My point really focused around whether she believed what she was saying - which of the two questions above was she answering.

    Not once did I (intend to??) suggest that she shouldn't believe what she wanted to.

  • Valis
    Valis

    As the song says..."there will be no regrets when the worms come".. Now give me 100 ccs of morphine!

    SIncerely,

    District Overbeer

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    A very, very sad story that serves to highlight the JW approach to death. Don't lose sight of the human tragedy here.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/local/orange/la-me-3dead5apr05,1,5497103.story?coll=la-editions-orange&ctrack=1&cset=true

    CALIFORNIA

    O.C. Crash Kills 3 After Wedding

    A brother, sister and friend were in a speeding car on the Santa Ana Freeway in Tustin.

    By Mai Tran and Claudia Zequiera
    Times Staff Writers

    April 5, 2005

    Three young people on their way home from a wedding were killed late Sunday after their speeding car spun out of control and flipped on a freeway in Tustin, officials said.

    Allen Suh, 22, of Tustin was driving his sister, Jennifer, 20, of Huntington Beach, and friend James Pak, 16, of Tustin after the three volunteered to help clean up the wedding reception hall in Cerritos, then joined friends at a coffee shop.

    They were two exits from Allen Suh's home when they crashed. Suh was driving his Infiniti sedan south "at a high rate of speed" about 11:15 p.m. on the Santa Ana Freeway just south of the Newport Avenue exit, California Highway Patrol Officer Chris Johnson said. A sudden turn of the wheel threw the car into a clockwise spin, Johnson said.

    The car hurtled across the freeway and mangled a guardrail before smashing into a concrete wall and flipping, Johnson said.

    Jennifer Suh, who was not wearing a seat belt, was thrown from the front passenger seat and later died at Western Medical Center-Santa Ana, authorities said. The other two victims were wearing seat belts and died at the scene.

    Autopsies Monday showed that all three died of massive trauma, coroner's officials said. Toxicology reports are expected in four weeks.

    Friends and relatives said the three had been at a wedding of one of Jennifer Suh's childhood friends. Suh had spent weeks putting together a slide show for the couple and picked a special outfit for the occasion: a glittery pink cardigan and brown lace skirt. Her 11-year-old sister, Barbara, had curled her hair.

    Pak played a part in a skit about how the couple met.

    "We were having a really good time," said Hana Cha, 20, of Fullerton, who attended the wedding and joined the coffeehouse gathering at Cerritos Town Center. "They were just too young for this to happen," said Cha, her face red from crying.

    Jennifer Suh was a sophomore majoring in psychology at UC Irvine, and she aspired to a career working with children. She helped pay her way through school as a private tutor and as a hostess at BJ's Restaurant & Brewhouse in Tustin.

    She was a piano player for 10 years, and she enjoyed reading and tennis. "She was really busy, but she always had time for family," said Josephine Chung, 19, of Diamond Bar, who grew up with Suh. "She was dedicated to the things she loved."

    Allen Suh had graduated from DeVry University in computer science and was working as a teller at Wells Fargo. "They're the typical siblings who always argue and make each other cry but they really look out for each other," said a cousin, Carolyn Nelson, 25, of Venice. "He was always the big brother for Jennifer." Allen Suh enjoyed basketball, but his newest passion was the black Infiniti his parents helped him buy last year. "It was his baby," Nelson said, adding that he was a safe driver. "He loved cars." Suh often drove James Pak around because the teen didn't have his license.

    At James' home in Tustin, his parents and 13-year-old sister, Susan, remained secluded as family members and friends gathered outside and sympathized. "There's no way I can describe their feelings right now," said an aunt, Rebekah Lee, of James' parents. "It's terrible."

    Officials at Beckman High School in Irvine, where James was a sophomore in honors classes, said he played the viola in the school orchestra and was on the tennis team. The school planned to notify students of James' death today and have counselors available.

    Classmate Michelle Kim, 16, sobbed Monday afternoon after hearing the news. She and James had been in a study group, she said, but he was also a confidant. "He was very smiley and always willing to lend an ear," she said. "I talked to him a lot about my problems, and he was always there to help me."

    Friends said all three victims were members of the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses in Irvine, where they volunteered 70 hours a month as ministers. "We believe we'll meet each other in paradise," Chung said.

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974

    I think mortality is something us humans find very difficult to comprehend and I believe religion and in particular the WTS prey on this uncertainty; they replace uncertainty with a belief system which destroys all natural inclination when it comes to life and people view the world with very short term eyes because of it.

    Dangerous indeed...DB

  • Generic Man
    Generic Man

    My position is that I don't know if there is an afterlife or not. The the only way you know if there is one, is if you die and see for yourself. Of course, if there isn't an afterlife, you'll never know it. In fact, if there isn't an afterlife, then you could never reflect upon how life was like. I think this is what makes the possibility of annihilation so terrifying to many. We go through life engaged in so many activities and then death takes away any memory of anything we've ever done. Makes all life's activites rather arbitrary doesn't it?

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