Are ex-jw's or "apostates" addicted to jw-bashing?

by booker-t 74 Replies latest jw friends

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    v. intr. Informal
    To engage in harsh, accusatory, threatening criticism.

    Harsh. Well, let's see, harsh would mean over doing the criticizm. Rarely do I see anyone overdoing their criticizm of the org. The org. made their bed. Now they have to lie in it. Yes people are critical of them, and sometimes the criticism hits hard and heavy, but it's all true. You don't say, "Well, let's give old Charlie Manson a break now. He's been in prison his whole life nearly. I guess what the Tate/Labianca murders weren't so bad after all. Here, have a daisy and let's dance." What Charles Manson and his family did were horrible and I bet that the Tates and other family members still talk about it to this day. I doubt they say flowery, kind things about Manson.

    Accuse. That's something you do when it might or might not be true. Like in a murder trial, the defendant is often referred to as the accused. Why? Because it hasn't been proven yet whether the accused is guilty. We all know the WTBTS if guilty. We are stating facts here, not accusations.

    Threatening. I rarely read anything here that is threatening to the witnesses. I do often read about witnesses threatening ex or current jws with shunning, etc. My own dear nephew threatened to shun my never-been-a-jw-daddy if he ever mentioned my daughter or me to him again. Boy was my dad upset about that, too. He put my nephew back in his place right away.

    Your definition just doesn't apply here.

    What is really is going on is a lot of people who were hurt are telling about it: warning others about the danger. It's like saying, "Wow, I went down the road and I was attacked by a wolf pack. They chewed me up and spit me out. I spent a year in the hospital. I am very angry with the Zoo for not securing their cage better. I still limp and I'm blind in my left eye. My daughter is traumitized from seeing the whole thing. She's upset because I forced her to go with me on that walk in the first place.I now have thousands of dollars in medical bills and I have to go to therapy once a week. Thank you so much for taking me into your support group." Are you going to tell this person he is zoo bashing or wolf bashing or whining? Will you tell a brother in Malawi that he's whining after he's lost his entire family and then read Crisis Of Conscience?

    And how do you know the severity of what any of us have been through? Some of us have not posted our whole stories. Are you going to tell parents whose child has died, from bleeding to death, to stop their whining? When years later they still feel the pain, miss the child and have just figured out the blood issue is bull$hit?

    I think you hope that all of us are making progress on our journey to healing. Well, talking about it helps us. Warning others helps us. Finding humor, even dark humor in our experience makes us laugh. Laughter can be very healing.

  • upside/down
    upside/down

    Kind of like saying that every time the subject of Nazi'sm comes up no one ever has anything nice to say....

    Of course the Nazi's are no longer the force to contend with they once were. The WTS is! It is still pupetrating it's painful and oppresive doctrine and deserves to be painted for what it is "a cult".

    All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing!

    Funny how the WTS has no problem doing the same to everyone and every "org." on the planet. Of course they don't feel turn about is fair play. The Constitution only protects their right to free speech and opinion- right? Hog Wash!!!

    u/d (who says all "addictions" are bad? I'm addicted to my kids!)

  • one
    one

    Steve2

    Who are you speaking for? Children raised in the religion who were born into an environment that rewards conformity and punishes self-initiative?

    NO. But even before the "children" becomes of legal age they can do something about it. Sooner or later it is THEIR responsability to validate whatever she/he learned.

    And when you say the person is not balanced, who legitimised that imbalance in the first place? People in positions of power over the individual!

    A person that after so many years is still CONTINUOSLY "bashing", about ANYthing, is not considered balanced, we can ask a professional for clarification... a true and ethical professionals will always tell us to stop whinin and get a life for OUR own benefit

    Even if a person has in some way contributed to the problem
    - and I concede you may have a really good point there - does that mean the individual cannot attempt to bring some balance back into his or her life by speaking out against the religious practices that increase the person's vulnerability to traumatic stress? Like you, I too have been there, done that!

    speak out? Sure why not, again balance is the word,

    Regarding my comment about some ex-JWs being fortunate enough to have supportive families:

    This is a protective factor and may actually help the individual come to terms more quickly with what they have been through.

    I agree, in my previous reply i insinuated that that if you think my opinion or attitude is due to having had such support, it is not true, it was totally in the other direction, my departure from the religion even caused a divorce. I could write a book thicker than... .

    Flying,

    What is really is going on is a lot of people who were hurt are telling about it: warning others about the danger.

    If that is what is "going on" fine.

    And how do you know the severity of what any of us have been through? Some of us have not posted our whole stories. Are you going to tell parents whose child has died, from bleeding to death, to stop their whining?

    "Severity"?

    it can be taken into account but eventually it does not justify acting in a counterproductive manner.

    ""stop"?

    yes they should..sooner or later and concentrate on what to do about it.

    I think you hope that all of us are making progress on our journey to healing. Well, talking about it helps us. Warning others helps us. Finding humor, even dark humor in our experience makes us laugh. Laughter can be very healing.

    yes i "hope" and if whatever we are doing help to tone down negative feelings it is ok, if not, then professionals will advise to review what we are doing, for our own benefit

  • one
    one

    listen to this one now

    I could not understand but I observed several people for many years, they were always whinin about something, even in the way they were raised etc etc,

    well most of them are on medication now..., i feel sorry for them

    i remember telling one of them to leave my house and do not visit me until she stop whinin and blaming...

    it went from bad to worst, more than a decade later i had to arrange and spend several thounsand dollars to make sure the person received professional help...

  • outbutnotdown
  • steve2
    steve2

    Hey there again One:

    You are onto something really helpful when you talk about 1) traumatic experiences a person went through in the past - perhaps as a child - and 2) learning to do things in the present that may help them regain a sense of balance and mastery over their lives. The capacity to do this is influnced by many things. What we do know is that if the individual has "models" or examples of how to live their life in new and more helpful ways, there is much that they can do to "move on".

    Many well researched psychotherapies - schema therapy, emotion-focussed therapy, dialectical behavior therapy are three examples - include training to learn to separate one's own emotional experience from that of others. This is important for those who were raised in (for want of a better word) "exclusive" religions because from an early age they may have had difficulty separating what they want and how they feel from what others in the group want and feel. The techincal term for this is "enmeshment".

    Yes, when we look from a distance at this happening within groups it is easy to see self-defeating patterns. And, I agree with you that very often people in difficult situations have learned, through watching others' examples, unhelpful ways of responding that actually makes their situation worse. You give a really good example: Often troubled people who feel as if there's no solution will engage in (to use your word) "whining" - because nothing else helps. However, I see many of the people posting here as different from that. They are attempting to make sense of their JW experience - as I am too - and it can take a while to learn new and more helpful ways of expressing one's pain and hurt. Yes, when a person also realises that they can do something about it, that is empowering. The whining aspect decreases and the ability emerges to express clearly their views and feelings.. and to take responsibility dfor those views. All power to people developing this ability.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    well most of them are on medication now..., i feel sorry for them

    I can't count the jws I knew who were or are on medication now. My brother in law is on disability and two of his sons are on it for depression. Guess what, they are faithful JWs. I remember people standing in groups after the meetings discussing their prozac, zoloft, etc. There were also many who suffered from panic attacks.

    I suffered from severe depression when I was an active JW. I fell apart really. Since I have left, I am happy. I don't suffer with depression. I see life much more positively now. I am one of the happiest people at work. Everyone likes working with me because I cheer them up and make them laugh. My temperment is much calmer since coming out.

    I bet most of the posters here at JWD are happier campers now that they've left the org. It's hard when you first leave the org. You may still be on meds from depressive illness you developed while still in. You are bewildered and don't know where to turn for help or answers.

    You come here and yes, people do discuss the org. That's a breath of fresh air: people who are allowed to freely discuss the org and it's glaring shortcomings and sins. Then you also see there are people laughing, discussing movies, music, their kids, their jobs, their vacations, current events, politics and so on.

    You start tasting freedom and it tastes good. The scales start to fall of your eyes and you can see some sunshine peeking out from that dark cloud the org. put over you. You find out you don't need prozac anymore. There's a great big, beautiful mysterious world out there for you to discover and enjoy. In a nutshell, you begin to hope.

    i remember telling one of them to leave my house and do not visit me until she stop whinin and blaming...

    You know, it was brothers and sisters with attitudes like this that made me dislike intensely being in the org. I considered it to be an attitude of Pharisees. "Proud hearts that know no pity for the meek." When people are that down, they need a caring shoulder and someone to listen. That's what helps them heal. Shutting people up, like the borg did, well it will only make those people sicker.

    Now we all know people who are eaten up with extreme bitterness. My exhusband, who is still a JW, is like that. He is alone now. Why? Because he has driven his exwife and children away. My daughter won't even speak to him because he is so ugly and nasty to her.

    One, I think you're preaching in the wrong pulpit. Want to find some sour, negative, bitter nasty people, go to any kingdom hall and you will find a number. My sister used to say things like, "I hate worldly people! Worldly people cause all of my suffering. I won't shed one tear for one of them when Armegeddon comes." I've heard a lot of that over the years.

  • one
    one
    One, I think you're preaching in the wrong pulpit. Want to find some sour, negative, bitter nasty people, go to any kingdom hall and you will find a number.

    I dont want to "find" i am just stating what professionals in the subject consider is not good for our health, wheter is being practiced on this boar or not. But i think in this thread some admitted to be doing it.

    You have been very interested in the topic but since you are a happy person it may not apply to you

    and i have no idea about your (nor anyonelse) "history' posting on this board, even if i do is not my business to point to individuals, my comments are usually general in nature and do not take into account who is on the other side, if you notice otherwise let me know please..

    Each indiviual knows his attitude wheter we openly recognize or not..If we don't realize what our real attitude is (which is not uncommon) after discussing the matter. that's a red flag.

    I can not see all members of the "pulpit" nor inner fellings ot the ones i see. .

    Who knows who might be part of the "pulpit" listening but not respoding it could be a member of the JW .religion that needs to hear the "preaching".as you mentioned.

    On the other hand being happy or happier does not mean there is no room to improve. One the reasons, probably the MAJOR reason for becoming happier after leaving the jw r is that jw activity is a boring routine, routine takes good feelings way.from you, that is why people take vacations from work etc.

    xjw have more time, freedom for thing that interest them, but bashing should not be one of those "things" for the reasons already mentioned.in many past posts.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    On the other hand being happy or happier does not mean there is no room to improve.

    Agreed. Who hasn't got room for improvement?

  • Incense_and_Peppermints
    Incense_and_Peppermints
    No, but jdubs are addicted to "apostate-bashing".

    they're supposed to hate us, yanno... i think it's in their "employee handbook"...

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