The Gay Elder (page 4)

AlanF

Sherry, I'm well aware that there's no connection between sexual orientation and pedophilia. Lord knows, most of the JW pedophile cases involve older men and young girls. If I gave you the wrong impression, sorry.

My point was about the hypocrisy of the Watchtower system, and the fact that, according to Watchtower teaching, these men who had long practiced what their religion condemned should not have been "appointed by holy spirit" to their positions of elders, much less GB members. The fact that they were so appointed proves -- in particular, within the JW belief system -- that "God" has nothing to do with their cult.

AlanF

Gretchen956

Alan, thanks, there was also one comment earlier in the thread where the two were linked so when I saw your comment and took into consideration the other one (I think it was this thread theres another one going as well) I just wanted to make sure that the facts were known.

Sherry

Swan

Sherry,

Thank you for posting this information. I hadn't seen these particular articles. It sure fits with the cases of pedophilia I've known. It seems to be a power/control thing in the minds of these sickos and I often felt it was far more like rape than anything else.

On the other hand, I have observed the gay and lesbian people I have become friends and acquaintances of, and it is clear to me that they have no interest in children sexually. Their attraction is clearly for other gay or lesbian people of mature age, although I have heard them wish a few straight people they admire were gay too. This is especially true with film stars and there is a lot of wishful fantasy about this star or that one.

Gay people are not out to seduce or recruit straight people, that's my understanding anyway. They are very amused by the assumption that they recruit people; then I tell them if anyone recruits, it has to be JWs and I should know, because I was one. There is a joke that they talk about having to do with a toaster oven that was on the Ellen show. They joke if they recruit just a few more people this month they will meet their quota and get a toaster oven. That reminds me of the JWs having to get their time in, and so I can appreciate the joke. If you knew my friends you it would be obvious that they don't recruit.

Clearly, if some people send out mixed signals, a gay person may be more inclined to hit on that person. My friends jokingly refer to this as gaydar. But for the most part, gays and lesbians are more interested in people who are interested in them in return, not some unobtainable straight hunk or beauty. The young man who was hit on by the Elder may have been sending out some of those mixed signals. It was unfortunate for that Elder that he misread them. Or maybe it is fortunate if his being disfellowshipped will now give him pause for thought about the futility of trying to be gay in a homophobic cult. I certainly wish him the best, wherever he is.

My granddaughter and her spouse are lesbians and I would trust them to watch any child. They have a boy who is 5 and maybe another baby soon if the procedure takes. It has taught me a thing or two watching them. Nobody would go through the rigmarole that they are going through up at the University Hospital if they didn't really want this child. It is a lot of effort to get pregnant.

I went to one PFLAG meeting where there was this lady who came all the way down from Portland. She was a very good speaker and was the founder of Love Makes A Family. I think this is true. She talked quite extensively about raising a family where the parents are same-sex.

I'm sorry for all the pressure you were put under as part of the JWs. It is a burden we all share complicity in as former members. I am sure it isn't any easier for lesbians in the JWs than it is for gay men, bisexuals, transgendered, or intersexed people. I hope you don't take offense by my leaving lesbians out of my previous posts.

Tammy

Gretchen956

Thanks, Tammy, I couldn't have said it better myself! No offense taken for sure!

Blessings,

Sherry

aniron

Never mind Gay Elders. We had two pioneer brothers in the congregation who turned out to be gay. They were from two JW families, fathers Elders. Brought up in the truth etc etc. They were about 14/15 when I first met them. They became full time pioneers when they left school, usual part time jobs etc. Became Min Servants at 20. Always the ones to do items on field service at meetings. Always seemed to be out on the ministry together.

Anyway to cut a long story short. I met one of them, in a restaurant, about a year ago. I had heard they had both left the JW's. Thats when he told me why. They both decided that they couldn't keep the pretense up anymore. Seems they had been "gay lovers" since they were 16. So as not to hurt family, they had decided to keep it secret. By throwing themselves into the ministry they had diverted people away from why they were always together. Turned out that times when they were thought to be knocking on doors, they were at one or the other house in bed together. They kept this pretense going for about ten years. Gave up pioneering, got full time jobs, a place of their own away from the area, and moved in together. Was there uproar in congregation, were they DF'd etc. No! Because fathers both senior Elders, the CO was a relative and no one said a word about it. He told me a few other things that went on as well not only in the congregation, but in the local area, and circuit. He said many young brothers are into the "gay scene" he has seen them at gay clubs and bars.

I must have looked dumbfounded with everything he was telling. He said "So you see the JW's are not the "clean and spotless" lot you thought they were."

Not that I did, but it certainly revealed to me another side of the WT.

justhuman

That is a really nice juicy post.

I remember in my cong we had 3 youngsters that they had gayish look. At the end the 2 of them they were disfellowshiped and the other one lost all the "privalages" - microphone, reader of the WT study(but as usual elders didn't say the reason). So the one wen't to U.S and after many years he was reinstated, the other one was "lost" in the world and the other got married!!

steve2

To be fair to the watchtower, it is not unique in "covering over" sexual orientation through marriage. A colleague of mine was involved in a pentecostal group several years ago as a young man. He had been struggling with his homosexuality for years due to a strict Christian upbringing. He "confessed" his homosexuality, including having sexual encounters with men.

His fellow believers prayed for him and over him, he went to a week long Christian retreat, had some intense religious experiences and genuinely believed he had been "cured". His friends encouraged him to develop relationships with members of the opposite sex, which he did. Eventually, he met and "fell in love with" a young Christian woman who knew about his past, but she too believed he had been "cured". They married, and had three children, the youngest of which died in tragic circumstances.

Shortly afterwards, my colleague - who I did not know at the time - realised he had been living a lie. In the intense emotionality of the religious experiences, he had really believed "the Lord" had cured him and swept up in other's enthusiam, he had allowed himself to lead a "normal" good Christian life.

The pain of eventually separating from his wife and the severe judgementalism of his fellow believers took a toll of him and he attempted suicide on several occasions. It is several years since this happened, but I often think, if only he had associated with a group of people who could have encouraged him to accept himself instead of encouraging him to suprress his sexuality and live a lie.

Because of his religious fundamentalism, not only did he end up in tragic circumstances, but so did his wife and children. Obviously, the Christians blame Satan for what happened. If only they had the courage to face up to their own part in contributing to this sorry story.

Swan

Steve2,

Yes, it is true that other denominations besides the JWs believe they can "cure" it. I once read a fascinating biography entitled Stranger at the Gate: To Be Gay and Christian in America by Mel White. He was once a right wing Christian and a former ghostwriter for such prominent Christian conservatives as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Oliver North. His story of going through that whole time of trying to be "cured" through faith, prayer, counseling, and even shock therapy is a very moving one.

I have deep compassion for people like him and the elder mentioned at the top of this thread. They have been through more misdirected guilt than most people can ever imagine.

Tammy

Think

How old the elder was ? I may know him.

joelbear

fishing for brown trout

that must be a puerto rican gay thing.

The Gay Elder

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