The Gay Elder

by Mastodon 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • xjw_b12

    Balsam said:

    So I am thinking he claimed to be repentent and got off.

  • xjw_b12

    Oh and what I wanted to say the first time ....

    I thought "The Gay Elder" was the title for a new Reality TV show.

  • orangefatcat

    Funny thing, when I looked a Masadons avatar it reminded me of John Wayne Gacy.

    When my sister and I parted as pioneer partners, (she became a special pioneer outside of the City of Montreal}. Her new pioneer partner was the Circuit Overseers daughter. She and my sister pioneered together for several years. The CO daughter was going out with a real handsome hunk of a guy and eventually they became engaged and were married. They were a fine Christian couple pioneering together and by all appearance looked like the perfect couple. They decided to have a family and then they moved out of Quebec to move to Vancouver. They were blessed with three children and were a family that any congregation would be proud to have them. However there was a secret one of them was keeping and it went on for years and years. The husband confessed to his wife that he was gay and could no longer go on with the charade. He was living a double life. Even in Montreal and the other areas he lived in prior to meeting my sisters friend he was a practising homosexual. He told his wife he couldnn't take the pressure anymore and the lies he was telling everyone. He left her high and dry with three small children and she was devasted. When my sister went out to Vancouver to get the plane to Australia(a stop over) she and her friend spend quite a bit of time together. My sister told me that her friends live was just shattered and was barely holding her own. Her father the now District Overseer had her and the kids move back to Montreal where he could be there for her. She and her dad were very close. I often think about her and how things are going for her. I don't know if her husband ever came back to her or was re-instated. I can only begin to feel the pain she had to endure finding out her lover was untrue to her .

    Its best that he finally told her the truth, as it allowed him to be what he wanted to be and no longer hide the fact he was gay. The tragedy is that an innocent family was badly scared because of it .

    I thought I would share this story with you. I never pass judgement on anyone, for I have no right to do so. They guy had to be true to himself. Its just too bad so many lives were hurt in the process IMHO.


  • acsot

    Orangefatcat: I know exactly who you're talking about, I mean, the CO/DO father, I never met his daughter. Friends of the father told me that she's remarried to an "upstanding brother in the truth. Jehovah blessed her 'cause she was so faithful", blah, blah, blah.

    Small world, ain't it?

  • Swan

    Even in Montreal and the other areas he lived in prior to meeting my sisters friend he was a practising homosexual.

    There are practicing homosexuals and then there are those who get it right the first time.

    It is too bad so many of them believe the Watchtower BS about how faith in Jehovah will allow them to marry sisters and become devoted husbands. If members of Bethel and the Governing Body couldn't do it, how can they still promote this cow puckey? Of course, when it happens in the GB or at Bethel, they cover it up so that gay men in the congregations still believe that marrying a "good woman" will change their feelings. It's so sick, the heartache they have caused with their lies.


  • Gretchen956

    It isn't just gay men, don't believe it for a second. I was married and a lesbian. They brainwash you in so many ways why is it so surprising that this is just one more way? It is a tragedy and more so that they are just as culpable in this as in many other ways such as covering for pedophiles, the blood issues, the UN, Hitler's Germany, Malawi, etc., etc. And if you don't think this has caused death along with the broken homes you are mistaken. My nephew took his own life rather than own up to the fact that he was gay. He was 16 at the time.

    For myself I totally bought it that if I just believed more, if I just prayed harder, if I got more hours in service, if I stayed married and subjective, blah blah blah... I would be cured.

    Well now I am cured, I am out and I'm out.

    BTW, care to guess how many single pioneer roommate sisters are actually secretly in love with each other? Maybe some not even so secretly.


  • fleaman uk
    fleaman uk

    BTW, care to guess how many single pioneer roommate sisters are actually secretly in love with each other? Maybe some not even so secretly.

    Er,probably not that many i should think.Why are there so many gay People (a Gay Mate of mine included)who think there are soooo many like them.No offense intended,just an observation.

  • AlanF

    About the CO who visited male prostitutes:

    I don't think it's all that strange, given that two Governing Body members were homosexuals, one even being a pedophile interested in young boys.


  • Gretchen956


    Here are some findings from the scientific peer-reviewed journal, "Pediatrics" published in July of 1994. The study was done by Dr. Carole Jenny of the University of Colorado Health Sciences Center. The subjects were 269 sexually abused children seen at Denver Children's Hospital over the course of one year.

    *1 in 219 girls was molested by a lesbian * 1 out of 50 boys by a gay male.*About 8 in 10 girls were molested by a man who was or had been in a heterosexual relationship with the child's mother or another relative. *3 out of 4 boys were abused by males in heterosexual relationships with female relatives. 2% of the boys in the study were molested by gay males. 98% of the boys in the study were molested by heterosexuals. Of that number, 75% were molested by heterosexual males KNOWN TO THE VICTIMS in an incestuous scenario. 0.05% of the girls in the study were molested by a lesbian. 99.5% of the girls in the study were molested by heterosexuals. Of that number, 80% were molested by heterosexual males KNOWN TO THE VICTIMS in an incestuous scenario. If you think that study is unique, I invite you to investigate some more references, all of which report parallel numbers. Groth, A. Nicholas, and H. Jean Birnbaum, 1978 "Adult Sexual Orientation and Attraction to Underage Persons", Archives of Sexual Behavior, 7, 175. "Suggests that homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia may be mutually exclusive and that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater risk to the underage child than does the adult homosexual male." [p 609] Newton, David E., 1978 "Homosexual Behavior and Child Molestation: A Review of the Evidence", Adolescence, 13, 29. "Existing studies provide no reason to believe that anything other than a random connection exists between homosexual behavior and child molestation. The typical offender is a heterosexual male." [p 610] "Stigma, Prejudice, and violence against Lesbians and Gay Men" (pp. 60-80 in John Gonsiorek and James Weinrich (eds) "Homosexuality: Research Implications for Public Policy" Sage Publications, 1992). Herek says: "Since 1978, no credible new data have been published that contradict the conclusions" [that pedophilia is a crime committed almost exclusively by heterosexuals].

  • Gretchen956

    by Joe Kort, MSW copyright 2004

    Originally published in ?In the Family? magazine Fall, 2003

    Q: I've heard therapists say that a male adult who sexually abuses a boy isn't necessarily ?homosexual.' This seems confusing: If he isn't homosexual, then why would he sexually molest boys, instead of girls?

    This is a very good question, and there are several ways to respond to it. First, we need to clarify our definitions. When discussing sexual abuse and molestation of children, there's often conflict over terminology. One frequently quoted researchers on the topic of homosexuality and child molestation, Gregory Herek, a research psychologist at the University of California, defines pedophilia as "a psychosexual disorder characterized by a preference for prepubescent children as sexual partners, which may or may not be acted upon." He defines child sexual abuse as "actual sexual contact between an adult and someone who has not reached the legal age of consent." Not all pedophiles actually molest children, he points out. A pedophile may be attracted to children, but never actually engage in sexual contact with them. Quite often, pedophiles never develop a sexual orientation toward other adults.

    Herek points out that child molestation and child sexual abuse refer to "actions," without implying any "particular psychological makeup or motive on the part of the perpetrator." In other words, not all incidents of child sexual abuse are perpetrated by pedophiles. Pedophilia can be viewed as a kind of sexual fetish, wherein the person requires the mental image of a child--not necessarily a flesh-and-blood child--to achieve sexual gratification. Rarely does a pedophile experience sexual desire for adults of either gender. They usually don't identify as homosexual?the majority identify as heterosexual, even those who abuse children of the same gender They are sexually aroused by youth, not by gender. In contrast, child molesters often exert power and control over children in an effort to dominate them. They do experience sexual desire for adults, but molest children episodically, for reasons apart from sexual desire, much as rapists enjoy power, violence and controlling their humiliated victims. Indeed, research supports that a child molester isn't any more likely to be homosexual than heterosexual.

    In fact, some research shows that for pedophiles, the gender of the child is immaterial. Accessibility is more the factor in who a pedophile abuses. This may explain the high incidence of children molested in church communities and fraternal organizations, where the pedophile may more easily have access to children. In these situations, an adult male is trusted by those around him, including children and their families. Males are often given access to boys to mentor, teach, coach and advise. Therefore, a male pedophile may have easier access to a male child. In trying to make sense of an adult male's sexually abusing a male child, many of us mislabel it as an act of homosexuality, which it isn't.

    Feminists have argued for years that rape is not a sex act?it is an act of violence using sex as a weapon. In the same way, a pedophile abusing a child of the same sex is not perpetrating a homosexual act, but an act of violence and exploitation using sexuality. There is a world of difference between these two things, but it requires a subtle understanding of the inner motivation of the abuser.

    To call child molestation of a boy by a man "homosexual? or of a girl by a man "heterosexual" is to misunderstand pedophilia. No true pedophile is attracted to adults, so neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality applies. Accordingly, Herek suggests calling men's sexual abuse of boys "male-male molestation" and men's abuse of girls, "male-female molestation."

    Interestingly, Anna C. Salter writes, in ?Predators, Pedophiles, Rapists and other Sex Offenders?, that when a man molests little girls, we call him a "pedophile" and not a "heterosexual." Of course, when a man molests little boys, people say outright, or mutter under their breath, "homosexual. Herek writes that because of our society's aversion to male homosexuality, and the attempts made by some to represent gay men as a danger to "family values," many in our society immediately think of male-male molestation as homosexuality. He compares this with the time when African Americans were often falsely accused of raping white women, and when medieval Jews were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices. Both are examples of how mainstream society eagerly jumped to conclusions to that justified discrimination and violence against these minorities. Today, gays face the same kind of prejudice. Most recently, we've seen gay men unfairly turned out of the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of this myth that gay men are likely to be child molesters. Keeping gays out of scouting won't protect boys from pedophiles.

    In reality, abuse of boys by gay pedophiles is rare, and the abuse of girls by lesbians is rarer still. Nicholas Groth is a noted authority on this topic. In a 1982 study by Grot, he asks, "Are homosexual adults in general sexually attracted to children, and are pre-adolescent children at greater risk of molestation from homosexual adults than from heterosexual adults? There is no reason to believe so. The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation. There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual." Herek writes, similarly, that abuse of boys by gay men is rare; and that the abuse of girls by lesbians is rarer still.

    The topic of female-female molestation continues to be largely ignored. There are few books on female sex offenders, particularly about mothers sexually abusing their daughters. I can find no books on mothers who sexually abuse their sons. There is one handbook by Hani Miletski, M.S.W., entitled, ?Mother-Son Incest: The Unthinkable Taboo.? Unthinkable is an appropriate word?so much so that there is nothing else in the literature on this topic, even though female pedophiles and female child molesters certainly exist.

    We know so much more than we did historically and yet have a long way to go. We can understand child sexual abuse further when people's bias and prejudice are removed and the evidence is empirical and scientific.

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