Sexual Harassment

by LittleToe 163 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  flower

  With all due respect Flower, I am not British, and I knew the intent.
  

  I was taught by a dear (now departed) friend not to say anything that isn't kind and nothing that isn't necessary to say. Something to think about, isn't it?

  Mulan, I realize that you got the intent as did some others. Many who responded though, who are intelligent and kind and wise didnt get it though and spoke very specifically about the incident and the people involved. I thought it was wierd to say dont mention the person in a thread which was about the person... until it was explained. Anyway I get it now. Not to get off subject but regarding your other statment....Your friend was probably a very nice person and I'm sorry you lost them. But I happen to disagree with that statement..the part about never saying anything that isnt kind. I think that all emotions are valid and should be felt not just the good ones. Anger, sadness, jealousy, grumpyness ect are all part of being human and so should be felt and expressed when appropriate just like positive feelings. Controlled of course but expressed not stiffled and buried inside. I tell my son when he gets mad for some reason that its ok to feel mad and that i understand why he feels mad. That way he knows that his feelings are valid. Then I tell him even though its ok to feel that way he has to control it and is not allowed to hurt anyone when he feels that way, physically or with words. He is allowed to say "i feel very angry because jane did....!" He is not allowed to say "I hate jane, she is stupid" for example. I guess I spent too many years not being allowed to express any feelings so I cherish all of them now and I will continue to express them. I try to do so respectfully and with the other persons feelings in mind. Obviously I dont always do that and when I dont and I realize it, I try to apologize. But the idea of living in a happy paradise where everyone was always kind and loving and never uttered a negative thought never really appealed to me even when I was a jw and waiting for it to become reality. sorry for getting off track there. back to the kilt discussion.
• 

  avishai

  Perfect, fmz.

  B) the issue is wider than that.

  Yes it is. There seems to be an idea in certain parts of the female population that men "can take it" Whether it is extreme sexual harrassment, being too physical with guys as in hitting, kicking or pinching (very hard) "playfully". Actions that if men did would get them locked up. Verbal abuse and taunting, that from a man that would be unnacceptable. And if you say "Hey, lady. I don't like that" You get more verbal abuse from same for being a "pussy". It happens. And women are getting more aggressive. For whatever reason it's happening, it's not OK. And Men have the right to set boundaries. Dammit.
• 

  Granny Linda

  Just curious, no flaming intended, really.

  Why is it those not in attendance are told we shouldn't express an opinion...and yet the person telling us was not in attendance either- but sure has opinion on what the rest of us should not do; and that's express an opinion.

  Good grief, charley brown

  granny
• 

  Big Tex

  sorry for getting off track there. back to the kilt discussion.

  Thanks flower, I appreciate that.

  I know LT wanted to discuss the topic of sexual harassment and avoid the particulars of any specific incident.

  Chris
• 

  SixofNine

  LT wanted to discuss it in a "wider" context. He's not a retard though. It's gonna be discussed, as it should be, now that it is a known event, and he knew that.

  Here's the deal folks, if you play this right, and don't get nasty, nothing you can say in this post could possibly be anywhere close to as hurtful as the actual event itself. That's the silver lining, and it applies to Red, Ross, & Rachel (kinda flows off the toungue no?) .
• 

  Mulan

  I tell my son when he gets mad for some reason that its ok to feel mad and that i understand why he feels mad. That way he knows that his feelings are valid. Then I tell him even though its ok to feel that way he has to control it and is not allowed to hurt anyone when he feels that way, physically or with words. He is allowed to say "i feel very angry because jane did....!"

  Flower, I couldn't agree more. Feelings are feelings and I agree you need to feel them and not suppress them. I've had a lifetime of that, as you have I'm sure. I just don't think a person needs to say everything that pops into their head. My friend meant just that. You can feel what you feel, but it isn't necessary to tell someone off or say something unkind just because it will make you feel better. Some things you just learn with age too. Okay...............off my soapbox and back to the TV. Is there anything on this week? Reruns, reruns.
• 

  flower

  I just don't think a person needs to say everything that pops into their head.

  Trust me, I dont say half the things that pop into my head lol

  You can feel what you feel, but it isn't necessary to tell someone off or say something unkind just because it will make you feel better.

  Scrolling through the thread I dont see where I did any such thing...nor anyone else for that matter.
• 

  Rabbit

  Ross, I agree that sexual harassment can go both ways. Men, of course have a very long history of piggish behavior, whereas, generally women do not. But, as Avi noticed...the times they are a 'changin'.

  It is wrong for either gender, I think, I t h i n k, perhaps it's more serious, because, of the physical danger, for a woman to be harassed. I say this cautiously, because, I'm talking about the long history of rape, social control and generally 'weaker people' women have been under those circumstances. I am talking of generalities in history.

  But, anytime a persons 'personal space or privacy' is invaded and is unwanted AND was even "warned off" most people won't cross that line.

  Ross, let me ask you a question. I know you'll be honest, even if it's uncomfortable. In your travels to countries where it is NOT the norm for men to wear kilts (even for cultural events) like America for instance: Do you see a marked difference in the way you are treated ? By women & men ?

  I've always admired a man who had the gumption to wear one in public. I have often wondered if SOME wear theirs as a 'attractant', like a woman wearing low-cut dresses or short skirts. I wonder if this can cause confusion...crossed-signals.

  Bearing in mind...for a man or woman..."No!" means, "No!"
• 

  Mulan

  Scrolling through the thread I dont see where I did any such thing...nor anyone else for that matter.

  I wasn't implying that you did. I was merely explaining what my older friend was telling me years ago.
• 

  Midget-Sasquatch

  How would you react if you saw a woman being treated like that? Would you intervene? Are there extenuating circumstances like if the guy is drunk?

  I'd definitely get right in there, all 5' 2" of me, and tell the jerk to leave her alone very loudly (that way there'd be alot of eyes and hopefully some surrounding "muscle" that could back me up). I could care less if he's drunk or not. The person still needs to be told he's gone too far. If they were drunk then hopefully when they get sober they'd be so shamed about it that they'd be more attentive next time.

  What about a guy in drag: Would it be appropriate conduct towards him? Is it a little fun, maybe? Bear with me now. What about a guy in a kilt? Is he asking for it?

  Oh this brought back to mind my visit to a Montreal club called "Soma" (spelling?). All of the guys in drag that we ran into in there, were quite liberal with the innuendo but it was all done tongue in cheek. Its common decency and respect to that person's dignity to keep any sexual innuendo or jesting to a level that's a bit more reserved than theirs....so that you definitely don't cross their boundary (even if they're quite free about it) and you can moderate their level as well to some extent.

  A guy in a kilt is not ipso facto asking for it. They shouldn't have to bear that question about whats underneath. But really I don't see much harm in people asking it to a guy out of playfulness or jest. It certainly shouldn't go beyond that though and if its obviously too sexual then its become harrassment.

  Does his silence on the subject give an open license to be abused?

  That should be any right-headed person's cue to cut it out, respect the person's choice to silence and go elsewhere with the conversation.