Tons Of Iraq Explosives Missing

by teejay 149 Replies latest social current

  • Robdar
    If it was not for the US, you would be Goose Stepping around the Eiffel Tower.....

    That response is becomming tiresome and boring. Is that all ya got to answer with?

    Ya know, there really is nothing more annoying than somebody doing you a favor and then reminding you of it again and again and again and again. You seem to have forgotten that the Russians played a big part in bringing Hitler to his knees. Without them, we couldn't have done it--and I don't hear them bragging about it or telling the French to kiss their butts evertime they disagree. Americans seem to act like we liberated Europe all by ourselves with no help from our allies. We also tend to act like we believe that, because of our part in WWII, Europe still owes us something.

    Russia lost 27-28 million dead in the war against Hitler--over 14 per cent of the 1939 population--compared with 350,000 British dead and 300,000 Americans.

    General MacArthur himself highly praised the military operations of the Russians. I believe he said that the "scale and brilliance of effort made it the greatest military achievement in all history".....

  • ThiChi


    ""That response is becomming tiresome and boring. Is that all ya got to answer with? ""

    I guess you have not read all the rest of my posts here? Here is some more:

    (Note:Due to the space time distortion of your reality, the intent of this message may be lost, confused or stolen. )

    Discrepancy Found in Explosives Amounts

    Documents Show Iraqis May Be Overstating Amount of Missing Material

    Oct. 27, 2004 - Iraqi officials may be overstating the amount of explosives reported to have disappeared from a weapons depot, documents obtained by ABC News show.

    The Iraqi interim government has told the United States and international weapons inspectors that 377 tons of conventional explosives are missing from the Al-Qaqaa installation, which was supposed to be under U.S. military control.

    But International Atomic Energy Agency documents obtained by ABC News and first reported on "World News Tonight with Peter Jennings" indicate the amount of missing explosives may be substantially less than the Iraqis reported.

    The information on which the Iraqi Science Ministry based an Oct. 10 memo in which it reported that 377 tons of RDX explosives were missing -- presumably stolen due to a lack of security -- was based on "declaration" from July 15, 2002. At that time, the Iraqis said there were 141 tons of RDX explosives at the facility.

    But the confidential IAEA documents obtained by ABC News show that on Jan. 14, 2003, the agency's inspectors recorded that just over three tons of RDX were stored at the facility -- a considerable discrepancy from what the Iraqis reported.

    The IAEA documents could mean that 138 tons of explosives were removed from the facility long before the United States launched "Operation Iraqi Freedom" in March 2003.

    The missing explosives have become an issue in the presidential campaign. Sen. John Kerry has pointed to the disappearance as evidence of the Bush administration's poor handling of the war. The Bush camp has responded that more than a thousand times that amount of explosives or munitions have been recovered or destroyed in Iraq.

    Another Concern

    The IAEA documents from January 2003 found no discrepancy in the amount of the more dangerous HMX explosives thought to be stored at Al-Qaqaa, but they do raise another disturbing possibility.

    The documents show IAEA inspectors looked at nine bunkers containing more than 194 tons of HMX at the facility. Although these bunkers were still under IAEA seal, the inspectors said the seals may be potentially ineffective because they had ventilation slats on the sides. These slats could be easily removed to remove the materials inside the bunkers without breaking the seals, the inspectors noted.

    ABC News' Martha Raddatz filed this report for "World News Tonight." Luis Martinez contributed to this report.

    Copyright © 2004 ABC News Internet Ventures

    The Washington Times

    Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms

    By Bill Gertz
    Published October 28, 2004

    Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned.
    John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad.
    "The Russians brought in, just before the war got started, a whole series of military units," Mr. Shaw said. "Their main job was to shred all evidence of any of the contractual arrangements they had with the Iraqis. The others were transportation units."
    Mr. Shaw, who was in charge of cataloging the tons of conventional arms provided to Iraq by foreign suppliers, said he recently obtained reliable information on the arms-dispersal program from two European intelligence services that have detailed knowledge of the Russian-Iraqi weapons collaboration.
    Most of Saddam's most powerful arms were systematically separated from other arms like mortars, bombs and rockets, and sent to Syria and Lebanon, and possibly to Iran, he said.
    The Russian involvement in helping disperse Saddam's weapons, including some 380 tons of RDX and HMX, is still being investigated, Mr. Shaw said.
    The RDX and HMX, which are used to manufacture high-explosive and nuclear weapons, are probably of Russian origin, he said.
    Pentagon spokesman Larry DiRita could not be reached for comment.
    The disappearance of the material was reported in a letter Oct. 10 from the Iraqi government to the International Atomic Energy Agency.
    Disclosure of the missing explosives Monday in a New York Times story was used by the Democratic presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry, who accused the Bush administration of failing to secure the material.
    Al-Qaqaa, a known Iraqi weapons site, was monitored closely, Mr. Shaw said.
    "That was such a pivotal location, Number 1, that the mere fact of [special explosives] disappearing was impossible," Mr. Shaw said. "And Number 2, if the stuff disappeared, it had to have gone before we got there."
    The Pentagon disclosed yesterday that the Al-Qaqaa facility was defended by Fedayeen Saddam, Special Republican Guard and other Iraqi military units during the conflict. U.S. forces defeated the defenders around April 3 and found the gates to the facility open, the Pentagon said in a statement yesterday.
    A military unit in charge of searching for weapons, the Army's 75th Exploitation Task Force, then inspected Al-Qaqaa on May 8, May 11 and May 27, 2003, and found no high explosives that had been monitored in the past by the IAEA.
    The Pentagon said there was no evidence of large-scale movement of explosives from the facility after April 6.
    "The movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks and equipment moving along the same roadways as U.S. combat divisions occupied continually for weeks prior to and subsequent to the 3rd Infantry Division's arrival at the facility," the statement said.
    The statement also said that the material may have been removed from the site by Saddam's regime.
    According to the Pentagon, U.N. arms inspectors sealed the explosives at Al-Qaqaa in January 2003 and revisited the site in March and noted that the seals were not broken.
    It is not known whether the inspectors saw the explosives in March. The U.N. team left the country before the U.S.-led invasion began March 20, 2003.
    A second defense official said documents on the Russian support to Iraq reveal that Saddam's government paid the Kremlin for the special forces to provide security for Iraq's Russian arms and to conduct counterintelligence activities designed to prevent U.S. and Western intelligence services from learning about the arms pipeline through Syria.
    The Russian arms-removal program was initiated after Yevgeny Primakov, the former Russian intelligence chief, could not persuade Saddam to give in to U.S. and Western demands, this official said.
    A small portion of Iraq's 650,000 tons to 1 million tons of conventional arms that were found after the war were looted after the U.S.-led invasion, Mr. Shaw said. Russia was Iraq's largest foreign supplier of weaponry, he said.
    However, the most important and useful arms and explosives appear to have been separated and moved out as part of carefully designed program. "The organized effort was done in advance of the conflict," Mr. Shaw said.
    The Russian forces were tasked with moving special arms out of the country.
    Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.
    The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
    Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.
    The Russian units were dispatched beginning in January 2003 and by March had destroyed hundreds of pages of documents on Russian arms supplies to Iraq while dispersing arms to Syria, the second official said.
    Besides their own weapons, the Russians were supplying Saddam with arms made in Ukraine, Belarus, Bulgaria and other Eastern European nations, he said.
    "Whatever was not buried was put on lorries and sent to the Syrian border," the defense official said.
    Documents reviewed by the official included itineraries of military units involved in the truck shipments to Syria. The materials outlined in the documents included missile components, MiG jet parts, tank parts and chemicals used to make chemical weapons, the official said.
    The director of the Iraqi government front company known as the Al Bashair Trading Co. fled to Syria, where he is in charge of monitoring arms holdings and funding Iraqi insurgent activities, the official said.
    Also, an Arabic-language report obtained by U.S. intelligence disclosed the extent of Russian armaments. The 26-page report was written by Abdul Tawab Mullah al Huwaysh, Saddam's minister of military industrialization, who was captured by U.S. forces May 2, 2003.
    The Russian "spetsnaz" or special-operations forces were under the GRU military intelligence service and organized large commercial truck convoys for the weapons removal, the official said.
    Regarding the explosives, the new Iraqi government reported that 194.7 metric tons of HMX, or high-melting-point explosive, and 141.2 metric tons of RDX, or rapid-detonation explosive, and 5.8 metric tons of PETN, or pentaerythritol tetranitrate, were missing.
    The material is used in nuclear weapons and also in making military "plastic" high explosive.
    Defense officials said the Russians can provide information on what happened to the Iraqi weapons and explosives that were transported out of the country. Officials believe the Russians also can explain what happened to Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.

  • dubla


    not wmds as french called them

    I'm baddddddddddddd ...

    nah, youre not was just a sneaky way to inflate the threat of the missing explosives.

    its interesting to watch.......bush gets slammed for exaggerating the threat in iraq, but when it serves the purpose of criticizing bush, the same people will jump at the chance to use scare tactics about weapons falling into the wrong hands.


  • Robdar

    Talking about distortion of time and space and reality. What does your cut and paste job have to do with my response re: the Russians and WWII? Must be sad to have cognitive dissonance.

  • Realist

    let me get this straight.

    the US mil. has not guarded the weapons depot for 1.5 years. looters were at the site until about a week ago.

    Now the US gov. claims the material was removed by the russians BEFORE the war?!

    how would the US mil. even know (despite a report that is as believable as the WMD reports) since they have not protected the site?


  • frenchbabyface

    nah, youre not was just a sneaky way to inflate the threat of the missing explosives.

    No didn't think about that in the rush (I'm so against BUSH ... as you can read ...) bad meant here (I've messed up) we do not have the same strategy Dubla ... I wouldn't have use this on purpose (cause this is where it lead) ... but you can think whatever you want about that after all ...

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge

    ThiChi.... what do you want to bet that those newspaper articles will not appear in any European press, or if so they'd be shortened and buried.

  • Simon
    If it was not for the US, you would be Goose Stepping around the Eiffel Tower

    You mean that if it weren't for the French and British YOU would be goose-stepping? YOU IGNORANT ASSHOLE

    We were fighting nazis while your country was sat on it's fat ass so do not presume to lecture and take credit for freedom. Other people's made a greater fight and paid a higher price than you and your countrymen did so I suggest you learn some manners and some history.

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge
    We also tend to act like we believe that, because of our part in WWII, Europe still owes us something

    Naaahh, unless you want to count the 10,000 American fathers, grandfathers, brothers, and uncles buried at the American cementary alone at Normandy. But what the hay..... it wasn't OUR war, why should we have even gone over there.

  • Simon
    ThiChi.... what do you want to bet that those newspaper articles will not appear in any European press, or if so they'd be shortened and buried.

    Once dying American soldier to another:

    "Hey, I lost both legs and am about to die but hey ... at least I was blown to bits by part of 141 tonnes of missing explosives and not 377 tonnes !!"

    Typical republican bullshit - miss the big picture and start arguing about nonsense.

    Your president screwed up and didn't want to tell anyone. I bet he was sat biting his nails and wondering what to do like when he was sat in the classroom on Sept 11.

    "Someone tell me what to do ... where's Dick?"

    (go look in the mirror dick-head).

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