***Ego can only go so far.***
Is that it? Is that your lame attempt at an intelligent comeback? You have no ability to do better than try and use the old ego explanation? Couldn't you just say I'm a poo poo face or a big fat pee pee head?
*** If you surrender you would not be limited by no-thing but you would realize you are unlimited as no-thing.***
Surrender? To you, or to the power of myth? That is your problem, you have given up exercising your brain muscle and have surrendered to the same line of mythical crap your co-op group has. None of you have the ability to look outside your confined mental sand box and just continue to try and defend the bullshit you were raised with. Once again, read a real history book and get your head and your ass out of the watchtower propaganda.
***I do not ascribe to the 'Christain' take on it all that Constantine instituted. The invisible sun god is worshiped every december 25. Yes christmas.***
Again, read a real history book and quit making yourself look stupid by repeating the same crap you learned from the watchtower. You have more then one sun god special day. Look up where the word "Sunday" came from and find out why it is considered the holy day of the week.
***I have no part of Constantines adulteration.***
Sure you do, you just don't know it because you have a nano sized knowledge of anything.
***Constantine died 337 C.E. while the council of Carthage was in 397 C.E..***
Wow, thanks for the in-depth insight. Here is what happened before the Catholic bishops got together at Carthage:
Constine became emperor of Rome in 312 A.D. A little later he embraced the Christian faith for himself and for his empire. As this so called first Christian emperor took the reins of the civil and spiritual world to bring about the amalgamation of paganism and Christianity, he found three types of manuscripts, or Bibles, vying for supremacy: the Textus Receptus or Constantinopolitan, the Palestinian or Eusebio-Origen, and the Egyptian of Hesychius. The adherents of each claimed superiority for their manuscript. Particularly was there earnest contention between the advocates of the Textus Receptus and those of the Eusebio-Origen text.
The defenders of the Textus Receptus were of the humbler class who earnestly sought to follow the early church. The Eusebio-Origen text was the product of the intermingling of the pure word of God and Greek philosophy in the mind of Origen. It might be called the adaptation of the Word of God to Gnosticism.
As the Emperor Constantine embraced Christianity, it became necessary for him to choose which of these Bibles he would sanction. Quite naturally he preferred the one edited by Eusebius and written by Origen, the outstanding intellectual figure that had combined Christianity with Gnosticism in his philosophy, even as Constantine himself was the political genius that was seeking to unite Christianity with pagan Rome.
Constantine regarded himself as the director and guardian of this anomalous world church, and as such he was responsible for selecting the Bible for the great Christian centers. His predilection was for the type of Bible whose readings would give him a basis for his imperialistic ideas of the great state church, with ritualistic ostentation and unlimited central power. The philosophy of Origen was well suited to serve Constantine’s religio-political theocracy.
Again, PICK UP A REAL LIVE NON WATCHTOWER PUBLISHED HISTORY BOOK and try to learn something that will make you resemble something besides watchtower clone.
***The question was "Where did man come from?" not what is man made of.***
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Men are from Mars and women are from Venus....or was it Las Vegas? I forget.
***Do animals talk to you? :)***
No, but you base your entire existence on the ramifications of one that you think did talk to a naked lady in a garden.
***If there is no purpose to life why live?***
I don't know, maybe I should kill myself? What do you think? To be or not to be, that is the question.
***Dave you may assume due to my age that I have no knowledge of other religions or history. It's understandable most people my age don't. Maybe it's hard for you to accept that someone can be a Christain much less a Jehovah's witness and still be informed.***
Informed? Not likely and your responses to me have proven that. JW's "think" they are knowledgeable and "think" they have studied other religions because what minuscule amount of programing they have comes from their cult and they are told that is all they need to know. You are a prime example of how little they do know.
***O, have you found someone that has said this?; “Love your enemies” “Do good to those hating you” “Bless those cursing you” “Pray for those who are insulting you” -Jesus Christ ***
Yes I have, but you are going to have to do your own homework and find it for yourself. Here's a little tid bit that was written 300 years before christ supposedly walked the earth. It is one of the many stories that were amalgamated to create the Jesus god hero. This one was attributed to the god hero Buddha first, way before it was attributed to Jesus and then plagiarized by the bible writers almost word for word and then attributed to Jesus.
Does this one sound familiar?
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The reputation of Buddha Shakyamuni had spread far and wide. Not only was he renowned as a great, compassionate and fully enlightened human being, but also as a skilled teacher and a miraculous healer who could even bring the dead back to life.
One day, a woman approached him after a teaching begging that he do something to restore her dead child to her. The Buddha listened patiently to her plea and saw how great was her despair. He said to her, "Mother, if you bring me just one mustard seed from any household in which no person has died, then I shall revive your child."
The woman was greatly encouraged by the Teacher's words. She traveled from door to door throughout her own village, but could not find even a single residence in which no one had died. She went out of town, wandering to this hamlet and that in search of the tiny seed that the Buddha had requested. Days later, muddy and footsore, she returned to the place where the Buddha and his followers were passing the rainy season.
She was ushered into the Teacher's presence worn out, but not discouraged. "Master, try as I might, I could not locate the token you requested as an offering. But I have come to understand that death visits every household and eventually, every single one of us. I would like now, to 'enter the stream' and work towards the liberation that the teachings provide."
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Spooky aint it?
Here are a few more tid bits about the simalarities of god heros like your Jesus:
In his Rationalist's Manual, MD Aletheia said "the idea of redemption from sin by the sufferings and death of a divine 'incarnate Saviour' was common among the ancients". He said redemption was "the crowning point of the idea entertained by primitive man, that the gods demanded a sacrifice to atone for sin or avert calamity". Among the Hindus, whose religion predates Christianity by up to two millennia, Aletheia said the idea of redemption and resurrection was prevalent.
"Krishna came upon earth to redeem man by his sufferings," Aletheia said.
"He is represented hanging on a cross, the tradition being that he was nailed thereto by an arrow."
Long before Christ, Krishna was called the "Lord of lords" and "the Redeemer", who "rose from the dead, and ascended bodily into heaven so that all men saw him ..."
But these are not the only similarities between the Christian and Hindu saviours.
This might explain why, when Pope John Paul II arrived to deliver a public mass in New Delhi in November 1999, he was met with hostility.
"It's bad timing," Hindu activist Raju told New Delhi reporter Uli Schmetzer.
"It's like the Caliph of Mecca coming to visit the Pope in Rome on Christmas Eve."
Many Indians see Christianity as "westernised Hinduism"; hence, they saw the Pope as a man who was trying to sell their own religion back to them.
This perception is hardly surprising given that, in The Historical Jesus and the Mythical Christ, Gerald Massey finds over 100 similarities between the two gods.
As if that is not enough, Kersey Graves in The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviours, finds over 300 likenesses.
Both authors use the more common earlier English spelling of Krishna, "Christna", which reveals the relationship between the Hindu and Christian gods.
Bear in mind that Christna predates Christ by at least 1200 years.
As well as both gods being resurrected redeemers, Christna was born to the Virgin Devaki, or "Divine One".
The son of a carpenter, Christna was of royal descent, like Jesus, and his birth was attended by angels and shepherds.
The infant Christna also was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh by wise men.
As a child, Christna was allegedly persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.
As an adult, Christna "lived poor and loved the poor"; hence he was called the "Shepherd God", "Sin Bearer", and "Liberator".
He also was called the "Firstborn", the "Universal Word", and the "Beginning and the End" ("Alpha and Omega").
Christna, like Jesus, was described as omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent - and proclaimed he was the "Way to the Father".
Just as Christ was baptised in the Jordan, Christna was baptised in the Ganges.
Christna's ministry was marked by "many miracles and wonders": he raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and the blind.
Christna used parables to teach the people about charity and love.
"Eyewitnesses" claimed Christna was transfigured in front of his disciples; hence they bestowed upon him the title jezeus, meaning "pure essence".
In some traditions, Christna died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.
He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven where he is said to return to "do battle" with the "Prince of Evil" who will "desolate the earth".
Even the Hindu and Catholic priesthoods have much in common, according to Australian author Peter Bowler in True Believers.
Both have nunneries and monasteries; both believe celibacy is a virtue; both impose penances; both offer indulgences; and both use beads for telling ...
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Buddha is another "divine individual" who, like Christ and Christna, is believed to have been "resurrected from the dead".
Just as many Christians now believe in an historical Christ, many Buddhists believe there existed a living, breathing Buddha.
Unfortunately, as with Jesus, there is little if any physical evidence supporting the claim Buddha ever walked the earth.
All that is known is the legends and sayings surrounding the Buddha character predate Christ by five centuries.
So it could be argued that Christianity draws just as much from Buddhism as it does from Hinduism.
For instance, just as Christ is said to have died while hanging from a tree, Buddha is believed to have expired while sitting at the foot of a tree.
Some accounts, however, claim Sakya Buddha was crucified, like Jesus, in a sin-atonement.
Either way, Buddha, like Jesus, suffered for three days in hell, and was allegedly resurrected: Buddha ascended to Nirvana; Jesus arose to Heaven.
But the parallels do not end there.
On his burial, Buddha's funeral clothes were said to have "unrolled themselves, and the lid of his coffin was opened by a superhuman agency, when he ascended bodily into heaven".
Compare this to Jesus, whose tomb was opened by an "angel of the Lord" who came and "rolled back the stone".
Like Buddha, Jesus' grave clothes were all that were found in the empty tomb after his "resurrection".
Going back over Buddha's life one discovers that, like Jesus, he was called the "Saviour of the World" and the "Light of the World".
He was born of the Virgin Maya, who was considered the "Queen of Heaven".
Like Christna and Christ, Buddha was of royal descent.
He was called by his disciples the "Good Shepherd", the "Carpenter", the "Enlightened One", the "Infinite and Everlasting".
He grew up teaching chastity, temperance, tolerance, compassion, love, and the equality of all.
It was Buddha, not Christ, who first said: "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:39).
These words also were attributed to Lao-Tze some 500 years before Jesus.
Buddha, like Jesus, abolished idolatry, was a "sower of the word", and preached "the establishment of a kingdom of righteousness".
He performed miracles and wonders, which included healing the sick.
Like Jesus, Buddha was said to have "walked on water" and to have fed 500 men from a "small basket of cakes".
In his final years, Buddha was said to have "crushed a serpent's head" and to have been transfigured on a mount ..."
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Perhaps the most striking individual to contend the claim that Jesus is the only son of God was born not in the east but in the west.
MD Aletheia claimed that, at least 2500 years before Christ, the Egyptian god Horus (Osiris), in some accounts, was crucified on "an accursed tree" in sin-atonement.
"Osiris, after being put to death, rose from the dead, and bore the title of the Resurrected One," he said.
"The sufferings, death, and resurrection of Osiris formed the great mystery of the Egyptian religion."
While some might dispute the Egyptian god's crucifixion account, there is no denying that the stories of Jesus and Horus are remarkably similar.
Even the name Horus has been described as contributing the name of Jesus Christ.
Horus and his once-and-future Father, Osiris, are frequently interchangeable just as Jesus, God and His Father are interchangeable.
In fact, like Jesus, Horus is claimed to have said: "I and my Father are one"; his personal epithet was "Iusa", the "ever-becoming son" of "P'tah" or "the Father".
Horus, like Jesus, was said to have been the 'Way, the Truth and the Light", the "Messiah", the "Son of Man" and the "Word".
Horus was called the "KRST", or the "Anointed One", long before the title was given to Jesus.
Horus also was called the "Fisher", the "Good Shepherd", the "Lamb of God" and was associated with the lion and fish ("Ichthys").
Originally a hawk or falcon-headed god, the Romans turned Horus into an eagle-headed god and the eagle symbolism was transferred to Christianity.
Hence podiums and pulpits in Roman Catholic Churches often bear eagle symbolism taken directly from the Egyptian god.
Like Jesus, Horus was born to a virgin, Isis-Meri, on December 25 in a cave or a manger.
In the catacombs at Rome today can be found pictures of the baby Horus being held by the Virgin Isis-Meri in what scholars have claimed is the original "Madonna and Child".
Like Jesus, Horus' birth was announced by a star in the east and he was allegedly attended by three wise men.
As a youth, Horus taught in the temple and was baptised when he was 30 years old.
As an adult, Horus performed numerous miracles including, like Jesus and even Buddha, the feat of walking on water.
Just as Jesus allegedly raised Lazarus from the dead, Horus was supposed to have raised El-Azar-us from the dead.
Before his death, Horus had 12 disciples and at one stage appeared before them, "transfigured on the Mount".
After "suffering death" Horus, like Jesus, was buried in a tomb where he was resurrected and ascended into Heaven, or "Amen-ti".
And here we have another interesting parallel.
Just as Christians end their prayers with amen, the Egyptians ended their prayers with amen-ti - Egyptian for "Heaven" or the "After World".
But praying was not the only religious practice Egyptians and Christians had in common.
At least 2500 years before John baptised believers in the Jordan, the ancient Egyptians baptised believers in the Nile.
Or in burial chambers.
In both cases, the purpose of baptism was to cleanse and revivify individuals - whether alive or dead - into a new state of "eternal blessedness".
Furthermore, just as Christians today are assimilated with Jesus through baptism, the ancient Egyptians were assimilated through baptism with their god, Horus.
In addition, just as Jesus himself was baptised by John, Horus was baptised by lesser gods ...
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One Christ-like god that is very rarely mentioned even within today's burgeoning pagan communities is the ancient Persian god, Mithras.
Yet two millennia ago the Mithraic religion, which swept across the Roman world, was the greatest rival of Christianity; a greater threat even than the Egyptian religions.
In Mithras: Mysteries and initiation Rediscovered, Australian author D Jason Copper said "if Rome had not become Christian, it would have become Mithrasian".
The story of Mithras, which precedes Christianity by at least 600 years, had numerous elements in common with the character of Jesus.
To begin with, Mithra was born of a virgin in a cave on December 25.
Like Jesus, Christna and Horus, little is known about Mithras until he reached maturity.
At about age 30 he began his ministry, offering salvation based on faith, compassion, knowledge and valour.
He had 12 companions or disciples and was considered a great travelling teacher and master.
He was known to his followers as the "Way, the Truth and the Light", the "Redeemer", the "Saviour" and the "Messiah".
He also was called the "Good Shepherd" and was identified with both the lion and the lamb.
Like Jesus, Mithras performed miracles and, on his death, was buried in a tomb from which he arose after three days.
His resurrection was celebrated every year and his sacred day was Sunday, the "Lord's Day".
Some scholars believe the Catholic Church itself was built upon the papacy, hierarchy and ritual of the Mithras religion.
Like today's clergy, Mithrasian priests acknowledged a "Last Supper" and performed baptisms first with water and then "with the spirit".
According to Cooper, the Mithrasians had a "Last Supper" which, like the modern Communion or Eucharist, included wine as a symbol of sacrificial blood.
"Bread in wafers, or small loaves marked with a cross, was used to symbolise flesh," he said.
"The priestly symbols were a staff, a ring, a hat, and a hooked sword; members were called brothers, and priests were called 'Father'."
Indeed, the "mitre" hats worn by today's orthodox bishops were first worn by Mithrasian high priests as the hat's name - mitre (mitra) suggests.
The "dog collar" worn by today's clergy harks back to the ring or halo associated with another Roman god, Saturnus, whose feast also was celebrated on December 25.
The architecture of the Christian Church - from the cavernous interior to the ceremonial altar - was borrowed straight from Mithraic temples, which were destroyed.
"The Christians sacked his temples, burned his books, and attacked his followers," Cooper said.
"They desecrated his temples, and built their own churches on the same foundations as the old Mithraic temples."
As if that were not enough, the Christians then took Mithras' principal festival - the festival of the "Resurrection of Mithras" - and turned it into what later became Easter ...
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In The Golden Bough, Dr James Frazier noted the striking similarities between Jesus and ancient pagan gods.
After exploring Christna, Buddha, Horus and Mithras, Frazier examined the lesser-known Attis or Atys, "the only begotten son and saviour" of the Phrygians.
Like Jesus, Attis was depicted as a man nailed or tied to a tree - at the foot of which was occasionally depicted a lamb.
Some accounts said Attis castrated himself beneath the tree giving rise to a priesthood that practiced either self-castration or enforced celibacy.
This occurred centuries before Gregory VII (1073-1085) enforced celibacy on the Roman Catholic clergy.
It was claimed that after he was crucified or castrated, Attis, like Jesus, descended into hell and arose after three days.
Like Jesus and even Mithras, the festival of the "Resurrection of Attis" was celebrated at the time of the Christian Easter.
With so many gods having such similar histories and such similar festivities, it was hardly surprising the ancient people were becoming confused, said Frazier.
"In point of fact it appears from the testimony of an anonymous Christian, who wrote in the fourth century of our era, that Christians and pagans alike were struck by the remarkable coincidence between the death and resurrection of their respective deities, and that the coincidence formed a theme of bitter controversy between the adherents of the rival religions, the pagans contending that the resurrection of Christ was a spurious imitation of the resurrection of Attis, and the Christians asserting with equal warmth that the resurrection of Attis was a diabolical counterfeit of Christ.
"In these unseemly bickerings the heathen took what to a superficial observer might seem strong ground by arguing that their god was the older and therefore presumably the original, not the counterfeit, since as a general rule an original is older than its copy."
According to Frazier, this "feeble argument the Christians easily rebutted".
"They (the Christians) admitted, indeed, that in point of time Christ was the junior deity, but they triumphantly demonstrated his real seniority by falling back on the subtlety of Satan, who on so important an occasion had surpassed himself by inverting the usual order of nature.
"Taken altogether, the coincidences of the Christian with the heathen festivals are too close and too numerous to be accidental ..."
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According to tradition, Lao-Tze - the virgin born - "ascended bodily into heaven", since which he has been worshipped as a god ...
Zoroaster, the Persian saviour who was conceived by a 15-year-old virgin, born in a cave, "ascended to heaven" and became known as the "Logos" ...
Esculapius, the "Son of God", the "Saviour", "rose from the dead" after being put to death ...
Two other gods who can rightfully claim to be "Christs before Christ" are the Greek gods, Prometheus and Adonis.
According to Greek tradition, Prometheus descended from Heaven as God incarnate as man.
Like Zoroaster, he was called the "Logos"; like Horus, he was called the "Word".
His purpose, like Jesus, Christna, Buddha, Mithras and Attis, was "to save mankind", although Larousse describes him as "the benefactor of mankind".
Other sources describe Prometheus as "the creator of man".
At least five centuries before Christ, the Greek poet Aeschylus wrote Prometheus Bound, which told of Prometheus' crucifixion.
Prometheus, according to Aeschylus, was crucified on "a fatal tree" atop Mount Caucasus.
Compare this to Jesus who was nailed to "an accursed tree" atop Mount Golgotha.
Other accounts, however, claim Prometheus was bound by chains nailed to a rock on Mount Caucasus.
Either way, Prometheus, like Jesus, was depicted as a saviour bound "with arms extended".
According to Aeschylus, at the time of Prometheus' death, the sky went dark in the same way darkness descended upon the land when Jesus was crucified.
Significantly, darkness also descended when another Greek god, Hercules, was said to have died.
Following his resurrection, Prometheus ascended bodily to Olympus where he took his rightful place among the gods ...
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Adonis is said to have been a modification of an earlier Akkadian God, Tammuz, who predates Christ by about 2000 years.
Tammuz, Thammuz or, in ancient Sumero-Babylonian, Dumuzi, was a fertility god associated with crops and the harvest.
He was no doubt associated with a death-and-resurrection ritual which was related, in some cases, to the annual cycle of vegetation.
On other occasions, to daily cycles.
Tammuz was a sun god who, in his daily cycle, rose from his cave in the morning, travelled across the sky by day, before returning to his cave at night.
Tammuz was then said to have descended into the "land of no return" before his resurrection the next day.
Significantly, as dawn approached the next day, a halo appeared, encircling the rising sun.
The halo worn by the infant Jesus is said to be connected with the Tammuz myth. Like the "dog collar" it also has been linked to the Roman Saturnus.
In addition, the Christian practice of praying with eyes closed is a reminder that Jesus originally descends from a sun god tradition ("son of God"; "sun of God").
Why else would the ancients pray with their eyes closed unless it was to shield their eyes from the sun moving across the sky?
Like Jesus, Tammuz, in his seasonal cycle, was born to a virgin, called Mylitta, on December 25 - the height of the winter solstice.
Tammuz allegedly performed miracles, healed the sick and suffered a painful death in order to become mankind's saviour.
On the third day, some accounts claimed, Tammuz was resurrected, like Jesus, into a new life of eternal blessedness.
This resurrection was celebrated in an annual lamentation that involved washing with water and anointing with oil.
"When those who lament, men and women, come up with him to me," said one Akkadian text, "may the dead arise and smell the incense."
The annual lamentation of Tammuz is described by the ancient Hebrews in the Old Testament:
"Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz" (Ezekiel 8:14).
With the return of Tammuz, the lands of the Akkadians became fertile again and the seasonal and daily cycles continued.
To the Christians, Tammuz became the disciple Thomas while to the ancients he became Adoni (Phoenician), Adonai (Syrio-Hebrew) and Adonis (Greek) ...
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This list of god heroes number at least 20 of them, all before Jesus and all with very identical stories.
You won't hear about any of this information from the JW volumes of published bullshit. You wanted my thoughts on your co-op? It's a joke, just like the cult it was born from.
Pole, have a nice day.
Dave
