Belief - a key to Spiritual experience

by LittleToe 78 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  SixofNine

  History is full of people who thought the way of God, way of Jesus, way of love, whatever, was for saps.

  No human has ever had a clue what the "way" of God is. The "way" of Jesus is not at all well defined (his fault, if he existed). The "way" of love certainly has no universal definition, but is generally accepted as the best way of life, from what I see of the people around me.
  

  However, those who say there is no separation and never has been a separation between God and man seem to gloss over the fact that a relationship is the choice of not one party, but two, even if one of the "people" in the relationship is God.

  Seems to me that the person was saying that God is not a person but a part of all of us? Which, while such thesis is merely insanely wild speculation, is certainly not any more insane or wild than speculating that god is a person.
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  gumby

  seem to gloss over the fact that a relationship is the choice of not one party, but two, even if one of the "people" in the relationship is God.

  Great point Megabastard!

  Try and get a believer to see this. They will tell you god talks to them in many ways other than audibly.....such as through his creation and design, that he is active in their life. How many people could have a relationship with a human who interacted in such a manner...never speaking, never showing his face, and not answering you on your timeline? I think most would cheat on the bastard!

  Gumby
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  joannadandy

  hee hee!

  Gumby, I like you! God help me, but I do!
• 

  gumby

  Gumby, I like you! God help me, but I do!

  You better, dang it.....I'm a damn nice man!

  I like you too.

  Gumby
• 

  El blanko

  seem to gloss over the fact that a relationship is the choice of not one party, but two, even if one of the "people" in the relationship is God.

  Well, we do not really have a choice (if you do believe that God is all, in all, through all etc) - we have a relationship regardless. Our life if you choose to believe, is intimately bound to God, so the relationship is there already.

  Every pleasure one takes from life, is due to God. Even if hedonism is your way, that way is through the grace of God.

  The word relationship can denote a connection with another. So, if you believe that God is the source of all life and we collectively believe that we have life within us, then obviously there is a relationship.
• 

  LittleToe

  Poppers:We all have beliefs, to some degree or other. Accepting the fact that each of these has a cost, which we need to be willing to see, and pay, is a part of the trail that so many ignore.

  ElBlanko:
  Yes, it's my own work. I only write when feel "moved" to do so.
  Relationship is one way of putting it, another is "connecting with the divine" (whether we initially see that as internal or external). In the "Jesus Road" the external is internalised...

  Gumby:
  Your reference to the infidels site exhibits a complete lack of understanding as to why I referenced the Gospel of John. JamesThomas is far nearer the mark (though I often think that he attempts to take people from square one to full-on elightenment in a single leap - that was not the route I took, and so I profer only a few pointers that I've found along the way).

  I need to reread the thread and assimilate it, so I'll hopefully reply later.
  Meanwhile I'm going to go for a walk, as the weather is hot, for here (in the 70's) and sunny. There's nothing like good surroundings to meditate in...

  My weekend helped a little, but I continue in a dark night....
• 

  Sirona

  LittleToe

  Firstly, thank you so much for posting that. You have always been very private about what you believe, so I appreciate the way that you have shared this.

  The very action of belief, and immersing oneself in it, seems to trigger some wonderful things, but it's very nature insists that one doesn't just put it in a box. It has to be lived and experienced, even if it only starts out life as a mechanism.

  I agree completely. I think that even in the way we think about spirituality, we tend to box it and label it rather than LIVE it.

  You've posted separately so I'll respond to your other posts that way...

  Sirona
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  Sirona

  If "God" or the "Divine" is everywhere, then Jesus is touted as the humanised, personal face of that eternity.

  Yes. Not only Jesus though. There are many deities who are also the humanised, personal face of God.

  I'd agree though that anyone seeking to know God would do well to get to know Jesus. Not the Jesus of the Watchtower, or the Jesus of the Catholic church even (although both have some merits of course) but rather Jesus as I think he was and has developed to be a symbol of love and sacrifice.

  Sirona
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  Sirona

  Since the whole preoccupation of this character is with "love", that comes to us in spades, and overspills to affect our neighbour. It's a spontaneous thing, not something that HAS to be worked at.
  But it all starts and ends with an adoration, free from personal ego. From that unencumbered starting point "grace" flows...
  ...and experience follows.

  Yes. IMHO, this can happen with many of the faces of the Divine.

  I have to agree with James Thomas though that we might be promoting our "separateness" by looking to an external Deity.

  Sirona
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  Sirona

  Sometimes it is easier for us to see the truth and divinity in others than in ourselves, especially in the beginnings of a our spiritual journey. So, by placing an image of love before us, such as "Jesus", there can be created a catalyst and a focal point for the cultivation and growing intimacy with what we might think of as divine and unconditional love.
  
  However, the mechanism behind Bhakti is duality in that emphasis is placed on a lover dependent upon a Beloved. Thus it inherently supports and enhances duality and separation. Which is just the opposite of what we are ultimately after: Oneness.

  James, this is very insightful. I agree, but am unsure as to how....well I don't think I can verbalise it. What do you have if you have purely the belief of being ONE?

  In the end, surrender must be complete and all must be let go. It is not easy to forsake our -- Beloved.

  How?

  Sirona