Contributions? Wait On Jehovah!

by metatron 88 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  metatron

  So, Proplog, you're an "atheist" who doesn't believe in "Jehovah" but who defends

  Witnesses as wonderful people who live in a "spiritual paradise". You assert that I and

  others "will be sorry" for saying bad things about the Watchtower.

  Does anyone out there have a problem believing the above? I do. Here's what I suspect:

  This and other sites are really beginning to endanger the Watchtower , not only by discouraging

  their cash flow generally but by threatening to cause a possible legal or social meltdown

  of the organization. THEY CAN'T AFFORD to have another Ray Franz or possibly even

  another Maximus emerge from shadowy cyberspace with exposed secrets.

  Even the simple rumor - if confirmed - that over 80% of Witness kids fall away could

  cause devastation to them, if it was widely known by Witnesses. ( Scene: Witness parents

  everywhere in tears telling the C.O. , "it's all hopeless!").

  I have said - and continue to say - that it would only take one determined person -

  such as a disgruntled Governing Body member, an internal secretary, the guy who

  shreads documents ( DON'T LAUGH! In my day, one of the guys who was assigned this

  used to KEEP COPIES , just for fun!) or some other functionary at Wallkill, Paterson

  or Brooklyn to bring the whole "house down", Samson- style. It might only take a few

  leaks, here or there, in regard to blood, financial misdeeds, or the molestation issue

  to cause them untold damage.

  And why might someone be motivated to do this? Maybe because the thin tissue of

  Watchtower doctrine won't sustain the faith of anyone with more than a couple critical

  thinking neurons? Maybe because they're fed up with working for hard-hearted Pharisees

  and would LOVE to see 'THE BOSS" led away, in handcuffs like Kenneth Lay?

  or maybe just because they "got shafted"? Ring any bells for you, Bethel monitors?

  You should be suspicious of Watchtower defenders who secretly style themselves

  after the "Theocratic Warfare" of David who acted crazy in front of the Philistines.

  Take note of scene names like "Joker" or "Mad Apostate" - or anyone else who's

  motivations simply don't add up.

  Your posts ARE HAVING AN EFFECT! Never doubt that! This is a guerrilla conflict

  that the Watchtower cannot win - and it is beginning to scare them. I spoke sometime

  ago to a long time Bethel overseer who decried the fact that "the Watchtower Society

  is being watched by apostates" who will pounce on any mistake or weakness.

  Do they ever "catch on" that most of their persecution is self generated? Or have we

  quietly passed into a state where the leadership have gotten utterly cynical about their

  aims for exploiting their flock?

  metatron
• 

  proplog2

  I don't believe in a personal creator of the universe. Such a creator is incoherent and impossible. I believe the universe is evolving. I don't believe that the universe consists of only what we can see. I believe there are parallel worlds in our universe. I believe there are likely other intelligent material beings in this universe. I believe as you do, Metatron, that we have been and continue to be visited and influenced by extraterrestials (or extra dimensionals).

  I believe that Earth's culture is being adjusted and modified by these extraterrestials. The Bible is a special book with unique instructions for the transformation of the world. The objective is to tame the territorially oriented system into one of worldwide cooperation which will ripen us for membership in the federation of civilized worlds.

  The story of the Bible is a record of this effort. The original sin is intrinsic animal territorial selfishness. This was an essential feature to move organisms through a competitive obstacle coarse that generated intelliegent symbol using creatures. But for humans to progress they have to jettison selfishness. You start by building a national group based on a law code - Israelites. You shift paradigms by gradually focusing on a messiah who will change things. The messiah comes and denounces nationalism and earthly territorial boundaries. The new temple isn't on some holy ground - it is universal. Laws are reduced to simply love as the antithesis - not to hate - but of selfishness. The messiah must die to symbolize self-sacrifice. The early church struggled with the tendency to fall back to the old ways. The precedent was set for awaiting and preparing oneself for the Messiahs return.

  He didn't come when promised. The Church reverted to nationalism. But a minority of Christians close to the time of Christs return have miraculously revived the ancient Christian traditions.

  Every Christian actively preaches.

  They are no part of the worlds nationalistic politics and wars.

  They are known for their good manners and unity.

  The purpose of this group is NOT to convert the world but to show that nationalistic boundaries and territorialism can be overcome. They are willing to DIE rather than lift up a weapon against their neighbor. They sacrifice their selfish careers to share in the work of building up the congregation.

  Their work is done. They have preached to the richest most selfish trouble making part of the world. Few will join them. Statistically they have reached a saturation point. When they discern the disgusting thing standing in the holy place they will flee Babylon The Great (USA) and avoid its destruction. They will be able to flee to South America because they have "brothers" relatives so to speak who will take them in. They will survive the destruction of the USA.

  This will be a witness to the whole world that there is something special about these people. Many in the rest of the world will start joining this cadre of Sky Kingdom Subjects. The King of the North/Anti-Christ/Gog of Magog will seek to strike them down knowing they are getting to be a formidable nation.

  At that point the Mother Ship arrives. Destroys the King of the North (without human hand). The New Nation of JW's begins to take over the earth under the guidance of the Universal Federation. Other governments are allowed to exist for a period as the whole earth "gradually" comes under Sky Kingdom direction. Humans thus gain victory over territoriality and can then make human life successful on this planet.

  It may sound crazy. But that's the direction the world is headed.
• 

  outoftheorg

  YES PROPOLOG YOU GOT IT RIGHT.

  IT DOES SOUND CRAZY.

  IT ALSO HAS A LESS THAN DESIRED, INDICATION OF WHO AND WHAT YOU ARE.

  NO SELF RESPECTING ALIEN IS GOING TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO, WITH THE WBTS.

  AN ALIEN, TO BE WHO AN ALIEN IS, MUST BE FAR MORE INTELIGENT THAN YOU OR I OR ANYONE HERE ON THIS EARTH AND YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO USE THE WBTS???

  I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR AGENDA IS BUT I MUST SAY IT IS ENTERTAINING.

  CONFUSING AND IMPOSSIBLE TO BELIEVE BUT ENTERTAINING.

  Outoftheorg
• 

  wannaexit

  They have NEVER had enough money to do all the things they would like to do.

  Are you sure about this?

  Wannaexit
• 

  metatron

  "Mother ship"?

  "It may sound crazy"

  no reply necessary

  metatron
• 

  TD

  ...Yes. On that note.....
• 

  Sunspot

  **But this discussion isn't about me, personally. It's about Metatron's hateful & groundless attacks on JW's. And it's about the chorus that chants in the back ground.

  Proplog,

  Most of us don't find Met's posts either hateful or groundless---personally I think he is one of the best posters here. I have yet to see anything he's said "over the top", unlike others.

  **The 6.5 million JW's who have beaten their swords into plowshares stand as a model for the rest of the world.

  Oh please!!!! I don't find 6 mil people blindly following everchanging doctrine as WELL as all the other atrocities and lies they are expected to believe---coming anywhere NEAR a "role model" for anything. THINK about all the lives that have been completely torn apart by this "role model" from Hell. They may not go to "war" as such, but they start plenty of their own wars in families worldwide.A group of brainblocked folks USED to seem like a pattern to follow---until I woke up and smelled the coffee!

  **I believe there are a lot of undecided lurkers who stumble onto this forum. They will NEVER enter into this discussion by posting their feelings. But, they ought to see that there is NO evidence that the Watchtower is a "wicked" organization.

  THAT didn't make any sense! Have you NOTED all the newbies in the past few months---that ARE posting?

  **The day will come when people like Metatron and You will regret the things you are saying against these good people.

  I seriously doubt that. He attacks the ORG---not the individual JWs. ALL of us can't help but wonder how the JWs can DEFEND the crap they are fed from the FDS. We DO make mention of that ---quite often. I'll say the same about myself! HOW the hell did I swallow that junk? Don't YOU feel somewhat duped and stupid for believing the WTS???

  **I don't believe in a personal creator of the universe. Such a creator is incoherent and impossible.

  Maybe we should stop "talking" to you because you're a REAL apostate! WTS apologists/supporters are strange animals.

  Proplog, The more you post-the more incredulous you become.
• 

  IT Support

  Metratron's quite right--the GB are seriously worried over the falling level of contributions. He's also spot-on in advising the faithful to 'wait on Jehovah.'

  Remember Pastor Russell's words in the second issue of the Watch Tower? In August 1879 he wrote:

  ?Zion ?s Watch Tower has, we believe, JEHOVAH for its backer, and while this is the case it will never beg nor petition men for support. When He who says: ?All the gold and silver of the mountains are mine,? fails to provide necessary funds, we will understand it to be time to suspend the publication.?

  In spite of this promise, never before have there been so many Society letters, Watchtower and Kingdom Ministry articles begging for money. A year or so ago, the CO?s Thursday talk was titled ?Honour Jehovah With Your Valuable Things.? It was one hour-long beg for money.

  So what is proplog2's beef?

  You seem to be a real gusher of hateful propaganda.

  Hateful propaganda? Not a chance. Hurtful truths, perhaps, but then the truth often hurts.

  So, proplog2, do you agree with the Pastor's words, which many JWs over the decades have taken as an article of faith?

  Okay, perhaps the article didn't use the specific expression 'wait on Jehovah.' But even you must accept that a similar sentiment is expressed.

  I am sure they aren't worrying about money.

  Oh yes? You're really sure, are you? Hmm, if so, why do they talk about it so often, and ask for it so regularly? And how regularly do these articles appear in the Watchtower patiently explaining all the various ways the faithful can donate to the Society? Is it every six months, every year? Not really in keeping with the Pastor's words, are they?

  Regards,

  Ken
• 

  onintwo

  Something Proplog2 says offends me.

  He seems to indicate that JW's under the instruction of the WTS do not fight wars "over imaginary lines". Says it like it's some sort of good thing, a badge of honor one would wear with pride.

  I say, that it's shameful that they won't defend this country, it's Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. but will invoke every damn right that is guaranteed by those documents!

  They will use every rule in the book, a book they won't defend!! By the way, it's no coincidence that the headquarters of the WTS Corporations are located in the US, and not in Rwanda, Burundi, etc.

  Onintwo
• 

  AlanF

  Proplog2, after reading your foolishness about aliens and the Mother Ship, I have to conclude you're almost as goofy as JCanon. No one can take you seriously now. Nevertheless, for the lurkers, I'll respond:

  : It may be that I don't have any morals.

  You have no sense, either, taking your comments at face value.

  : But this discussion isn't about me, personally. It's about Metatron's hateful & groundless attacks on JW's. And it's about the chorus that chants in the back ground.

  There's a lot of bitching, to be sure, but a great deal of it is entirely justified. Metatron correctly points out, as I have done extensively, that Watchtower leaders are pathological liars. They lie about their history, various doctrinal justifications, science. If they tackle a subject, they've probably told some lies about it.

  : The 6.5 million JW's who have beaten their swords into plowshares stand as a model for the rest of the world.

  Not at all. What you see is a pretense of such beating. In reality, the Watchtower Society has not convinced JWs to really abhor war and violence. If the Watchtower convinced JWs that God wanted them to engage in such, or to start killing apostates, a large fraction of them would do it without a second thought. You don't disobey God. That's proved by the way so many JWs will throw away their friends and relatives who merely leave the cult. No one with a shred of human feeling could do that. It's a small step from the hatred of shunning to killing, especially when God is behind the cult leaders.

  : I believe there are a lot of undecided lurkers who stumble onto this forum.

  So do I.

  : They will NEVER enter into this discussion by posting their feelings.

  Some will, some won't. There are already plenty of active posters who started out as lurkers and learned enough to quit the JW cult.

  : But, they ought to see that there is NO evidence that the Watchtower is a "wicked" organization.

  Many JWs, like you, have no real morals. They do have loyalty to the Watchtower organization, which they view as equivalent to God. As such, no matter what the organization or its leaders do, they won't 'see' any evidence against it. But refusing to see it doesn't make the evidence go away. It only demonstrates the braindead, cult mindset the Watchtower has goaded them into.

  Keep in mind that we're not so much criticizing individual JWs, who for whatever reason have been terribly misled, but the leaders who have misled them. So, when one understands that individual JWs would most certainly go to war if Watchtower leaders told them to, one understands that they don't really believe the JW doctrine that Christians aren't supposed to go to war under any circumstances.

  : The day will come when people like Metatron and You will regret the things you are saying against these good people.

  Ah, when the Mother Ship arrives. Right. Just like Armageddon has been right around the corner these past 90 years, eh?

  AlanF