Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource 78 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Zep

    OTS etc..

    You guys are Crackpots, arn't you!....and COJ doesn't give a flip about your book does he now! honest, c'mon!

    So anyway, Why dont you post 'the report' on the web for all to see, afterall, salvation shouldn't cost anything...let alone 16:95$....

    Edited by - Zep on 13 August 2000 18:23:5

  • bjc2012


    Jesus' words at Matthew 7:6 explains why not!


  • Pathofthorns

    Hey 7,

    Your quote is about the best thing on this thread. Who is this Philip Yancey? Maybe he's got some other stuff worth reading.

    It seems everyone wants to get so lost in the details that they've missed the basic simplicity of the scriptures.

    As far as the WTS having anything to do with God's plan or purpose, i think that's just wishful thinking. At what point did they manifest any evidence God was using them? Why would he be using them now?

    Perhaps Russell was full of good intentions, some good ideas, but that was about it. He didn't even really use God's name, that only came with Rutherford. As soon as Rutherford appeared on the scene with his "small [punk-ass] band of anointed ones" things just went downhill.

    This organization has been nothing but a blasphemous reproach to everything righteous and true and if it has any importance in scripture, it is only something we have been warned against.

    The reform movement is doomed to failure as well. The only success it can have is exposing more people to the truth about the organization and the hastening of its end.

    Why would anyone who becomes free want to become a slave of men again?


  • Seven

    Path, You would find Yancey's book, The Bible Jesus Read, to be a fascinating read. Go to amazon and read the reviews. Then decide for yourself if you'd like to explore the Hebrew scriptures that Jesus read and view Israel's God before he was ours. Another book of his I recommend is The Jesus I Never Knew. 7

  • Frenchy


    Therefore Jesus cried out as he was teaching in the temple… many of the crowd put faith in him…(emphasis mine) --Matt 7: 28-31 (John 7:31 See also:John 8:30;John 10:42

    I said ‘many’ and the scripture says ‘many’. One scripture alone saying that ‘many’ put faith him should suffice but if you take the time to look up the scriptures cited here you will find several instances of this being recorded. It appears that the religious leaders of the day were also concerned about the numbers that were being convinced.

    and the Pharisees gathered the San'he·drin together and began to say: “What are we to do, because this man performs many signs? If we let him alone this way, they will all put faith in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation. John 11: 47-48 –NWT

    See also John 12:42 (quoted below)

    All the same, many even of the rulers actually put faith in him --NWT

    See also Mark 2:15; John 2:23; 12:11.
    The 120 gathered at Pentecost did not necessarily comprise all of the believers. This is yet one more example of liberties being taken with the scriptures, one more argument based on a foundation of sand.
    You mentioned the resurrections that Jesus performed. I now call your attention to one of these, namely the resurrection of Lazarus. It’s in one of the scriptures I cited above but I’ll quote it here for your convenience. Concerning what happened after Jesus resurrected his friend, here is what John records at John 11:44

    Therefore many of the Jews that had come to Mary and that beheld what he did put faith in him

    Did you notice the phrase “many of the Jews…put faith in him”? One of your own examples defeats your argument.
    Your statement: “The "MANY," you have referred were not among the Jewish nation at all. “ Now you are arguing against scripture. You will now have to qualify your statement (revise it) or stand in opposition to scripture. Which will it be?
    You further state:

    So, the "many," you must be referring to, then, are the ones that truly manifested faith, and obedience to God's Word, the "many," who really responded, the "gentile" converts.

    The scriptures cited speak only of Jews. There are reference to many Samaritans putting faith in Jesus but I left these out since you have chosen to argue against there being many Jews doing so. If you go back to my post, however, you will find that nowhere did I qualify the ‘many’ that I mentioned. You chose to assume (presume) that I was speaking of Jews and therefore take issue with what I said. This is yet another very common tactic, that of obfuscation of the real issue. However, I accepted your unmerited challenge and have provided you with scriptural proof (no interpretation needed here) that you are the one in error. How will you respond to this? Will you be forthright about it?

    no "many" among them (Israelite nation) that did. Only a "few", just as Jesus said. So, you are greatly mistaken, sir.

    What say you of the scriptures that contradict you? Again, you are going to have to back up and qualify (revise) your assertions in order to save face. Such is the fate of all who presumptuously lunge forward to correct their fellow man on God’s will. Jesus cautioned against this sort of behavior with a simple but powerful illustration of a straw and a rafter. You have just been presented with facts that you obviously overlooked when you made your rash statements in retaliation to my posts. This does nothing as far as instilling confidence in your ‘sacred secrets’. I would have been far more impressed (now I am amused) had you approached this in a more balanced and humble manner. Your demeanor betrays you.

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • Frenchy

    To One and tfs: If my tone appears harsh then please forgive me for that is not my intent. I do enjoy hearing views other than my own but I really detest being preached to. I will on each and every occassion call you down to prove your point. When you make dogmatic statements which you cannot substantiate scripturally and then call these 'truths' then you are no longer discussing but you are preaching. When presuming to interpret prophecy you had better have the credentials to do so or be prepared to be called down on it. Now if you want to present these things as an opinion that's a different matter. I will consider reasonable opinions but I will not have these shoved down my throat as divine truth from God or be accused of not being a Christian because I ask for proof. No sir. Never again. You want to preach? Then you had better be ready to prove every word you say.

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • Frenchy

    To bjc: Concerning your reply to Zep's question of why 'the report' should not be free, you cite Matt 7:6. Can you please explain this?

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • Zep

    bjc Hasn't got a clue Frenchy.

    See, OTS comes on here and starts claiming JW's are actually still fulfilling bible prophecy in spite of all their errors.They are just in a disapproved state, but the bible is still referring to them, they are special in this repect....this is a big call.He then subtly tries to implicate Carl Olof Jonsson with 'the report'...trying to give it more credibility....this is just BS, and probably a complete misquote of what COJ said, if he said anything.I mean, i'm 'interested' in JW's...but i think they are completely bogus as an organization.
    See, OTS and company make a big claim in that JW's are Gods people...and the proof he offers is that they use the name 'Jehovah'...and thats it.Apparently theres more but you have to send away for the book.If they were really genuine they would have a web site where you can view some of their views more indepth...but no, all they offer is a laim argument that JW's are using Jehovahs name and that therefore means they are 'modern Israel'.See, with the GENTILE TIMES RECONSIDERED by COJ...i can go to numerous sites and analyse to a degree the arguments and then decide if i want to buy the book.COJ, numerous times has expounded upon his views on h20....these REPORT guys however are just secretive, they offer you nothing to mull over except some lame defense and then ask you to go buy the book....for 16:95$ without even a hint of whats in it.My guess is it was probably written by Dr Suess and is about 10 pages long printed a PC and stapled together.If they want credibility they should put or shut up.But all they have done is throw a few bible verses round, trying to imply that 'my heart isn't right'...and ask everyone to buy a book without having a clue about whats in it!.They must think people here were born last week!

    Edited by - Zep on 14 August 2000 0:21:17

  • Zep
  • Zep

    Mat 7:6...See Frenchy i'm swine, they know this because they can read my its only right that these 'report' guys hide their light from the world and people like me.You see, swine like me ask too many we dont deserve answers!...except for lamo ones like..."oh They use Jehovahs name"....yeah that proves a real lot!

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