Modern-day Israel's Identity

by Onetruesource 78 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Onetruesource

    Okay Zep,
    Let's see what kind of proof you want. When you became one of Jehovah's Witnesses, what convinced you of the truth? I ask because I need to know how you think. Different things convinced all of us differently. For me,learning of the paridise from the bible was a start, but it was the prophetic books that impressed me and caused me to make a conviction. Even though much of it was not fully understood, just seeing that Jehovah was telling us what would happen impressed me. We all need different proofs. We all have to realize that JW's do have more of the truth than any other Christian religion. I guest, but I would think that 95% of Christians believe in the Trinity,burning hell, and no paradise. What do you think?
    Zep you said, “VERY generalistic lines of evidence are simply not enough to prove to me that Dubs are the "Truth". First all, you have just belittle a few very important things to Jehovah. Centurys ago Jehovah said, “And they must place my name upon the sons of Israel, that I myself may bless them.” It was the placing of this particular name upon the Jewish nation that brought special blessings upon them. In fact, it was the placing of the name upon ancient Israel , in itself, that made them a special people for his possession. The placing of God’s personal name upon the Jewish nation proved to be the single most outstanding characteristic that identified them as “His people,” “His inheritance,”- it identified them as being “Israel.” Some today, do not fill the his name is that important. Not even the Jews saw the full appreciation for it. They thought they knew Jehovah, but did not. That is why Jesus in the midst of the Jews said, “ I have made your name known to them and will make it known”.(John 17:26) The Jews did not really know Jehovah. If they did, his name would have been put on high and they would have identified Jesus. You obviously do not see the significance of Jehovah’s name. For Jehovah’s name to be called upon anyone is a great honor and responsibility. But you have belittled that significance. You obviously don’t know Jehovah the way you should. He is fear inspiring and a Jealous God. For someone to carry that name carries a blessing or a curse, depending on how they display it. It was said of the Jews, “The Name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.” (Romans 2:24) Carrying Jehovah’s name is no small matter.

    None the less here are my three lines of evidence: coupled with what has already been said. This is only a small attempt to explain.

    1) process of elimination
    2) comparison with what made the nation of Israel God's people
    3) Prophecy that describe his people in the last days.

    We can all see that the bible does talk about Israel in the last days right? We also know the natural nation has been abandoned by Jehovah, right?(Matt 23:37,38) Okay, who is, who could it be, and how can we identify them? If you look throughout the world in search of Israel according to the scriptures, who would you find. THEY must believe in Jehovah as the ONLY true God and carry that name upon themselves(Isaiah 43:6,7). As the natural Jews were called by that name. They were distinguished by their affiliation with that name. Right? THEY cannot use idols in worship, for Jehovah hates that. Right? Okay, that’s our starting point. Let’s narrow our choices down. Who could be on this list? Name them.

    The nation of Israel became officially God’s people when? 1512BCE. When they made a vow to take that name and live up to the laws of Jehovah. With the mediation of Moses, they all took that vow.(EX. 24:7) That is when they became his special possesion. Sad to say, they failed miserably to remain in Jehovah’s favor. But, by them taking that name upon themselves, they took on that responsibility. But it is that public vow that made the difference. When Jesus died he mediate the covenant that brought the christian congregation into the same relationship. When the apostles died the Christian congregation was dispersed. But prophecies were not filled yet. These things had to come about through spiritual Israel. But who would spiritual Israel be? First of all, a people that believed according to the truth.(the same belief the the original Christians had). They did not understand everything(1 Cor. 13:9). JW’s made a public aknowledgement to except and up hold Jehovah’s standards in 1931. And they have been identified by that name since. They teach the same "basic" framework of truth that Jesus disciples They do not understand everything, but they are God’s name people. They ALSO, have failed miserably to honor Jehovah’s name. That does not change the fact that they are God’s people any less than the natural Jews were.

    Isaiah 2:1-4 shows what will happen when persons begin to flock to the mountain of the house of Jehovah, but the verses following tells who is else being discussed(Isa.2:5-9). There are two houses being discussed. The mountain of the house of Jehovah(verse 2,3) and the house of Jacob(verse 5,6). The men in the house of Jacob leave their house because of corruption.(Isa.2:5-9) These ones flock to the mountain of the house of Jehovah to be instructed about his ways(They should have already known, but didn’t). But notice that they flock from the house of Jacob!!. What is the house of Jacob? This is ISRAELl !!!!! in the last days!!! Yes Israel in the last days is being abandoned. Why? They have become corrupt.(Isa.2:5-9) Yes. Again!!! The nation of Israel has become just like the natural nation , CORRUPT!!!!. JW’s leadership is becoming more and more like the soiled worldly religions, Corrupt!! Other prophecies show how bad it WILL get!! This is one scriptural prophecy about Israel in the last days. Read it carefully, prayerfully, and humbly. These are Jehovah’s own words.


    Edited by - Onetruesource on 11 August 2000 21:57:24

  • Dubby


    Just wondering if any bible scholars have read your material or if you have conversed with any scholars. Who, if any, and what did they think of your work? C.O. Jonnson, J. Penton, maybe?

  • Onetruesource

    Hi Dubby,
    I am a student of God’s word myself and in no way am the author of this information.
    Like you, have been a JW for years. I began to study a publication called the ““ REPORT”- Jehovah’s Witnesses as Modern-Day Israel- Destined to “fall” and be “restored” according to Bible prophecy “. The name is based on a prophecy at Ezekiel 21:6,7. And I quote,

    “And as for you, O son of man, sigh with shaking hips. Even with bitterness you should sigh before their eyes. And it must occur that, in case they say to you, ‘On account of what are you sighing?’ you must say, “At a report”. ‘For it will certainly come, and every heart must melt and all hands must drop down and every spirit must become dejected and all knees themselves will drip with water. Look! It will certainly come and be brought to occur,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”

    I have been told that C.O. Johnson has read the “Report” and wrote a letter saying it was very interesting.
    I do believe that Jehovah is revealing new truths at this time for a reason. The long awaited promises from the bible are finally at hand. The WTBTS have the framework of truth, but they never could explain prophecies or understand them. That is why they have had to change them over and or again. That is because much of the prophecies are talking about them unfavorably. The scriptures says,
    “ For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with.”- 1 Cor, 13:9,10.
    Also, Jesus said ,
    “ I have many things yet to say to you, but you are not able to bear them at present. However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming.” – John 16:12-13.

    Knowledge has been incomplete until now. Now we have the big picture and as the Ezekiel says, “every heart must melt and all hands must drop down and every spirit must become dejected and all knees themselves will drip with water.” What Jehovah is doing is almost unbelievable. But it is in his own words. If you and anyone else would like to look at the “Report”, it can be order through :

    “TWMC Publishing
    P.O.Box 11229
    Montgomery AL. 36111”

    The cost is $16.95(shipping included)


    Edited by - Onetruesource on 12 August 2000 21:28:16

  • Frenchy

    One: Volumes have been written about Israel and the Biblical prophesies that supposedly do and do not apply to it. The truth of the matter is that prophecy is never understood before it happens and even after it happens not all the details are present. Many times the incident that is supposedly being prophesied occurs and then later something else of a similar nature happens and then it's also called a fulfillment. Later on more details are discovered and then revisions are made. It's endless.
    From the Exodus to the coming of Christ God was dealing with a political nation here on earth. The bulk of what was written in the Hebrew Scriptures was for that nation.

    -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-

  • Zep

    OTS...i haven't belittled Gods name at all.I'm saying that simly because they (JW's) have decided to use the Name Jehovah means nothing, proves nothing.It doesn't prove God gave them that right, it doesn't prove that they are Gods chosen.It simply means they have chosen to use his name, and to then to quote it as proof that they are modern Israel like you have done is mad....You said i've belittled Jehovahs name, REALLY!...then what have JW's done to it...false prophecy after false prophecy...lie after lie...and all while under the bander of his name. If ive belittled it, then they destroyed it!
    Ever thought that Modern Israel hasn't come yet BTW.Also, your assertion that because Dubs are better than all other religions because they have a better understanding of the Truth(which i'd dispute) means that they are the Way and the Light is simply means squat.Its not how they measure up to others but how they measure up to Gods word, they fail miserably here!...did you check my link huh?
    What made me become a Dub....I didn't, i had an association.What interested me in their stuff?....its was their 1914 stuff, their 1914 lies...i believed lies!.I didn't research enough and i trusted their assertions too much, but i was young!.

  • Onetruesource

    thanks for your incite. No, we do not believe God's words are useless. Many people, because of not seeing God for them, doubt whether he even exist. The fact is prophecy is revealed by Jehovah, not man. And I quote,

    "Consequently we have the prophetic word [made] more sure; and you are doing well in paying attention to it as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until day dawns and a daystar rises, in your hearts. For you know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. For prophecy was at no time brought by man's will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit." 2 Peter 1:21

    So, if you are trying to discredit the scriptures, I believe you should take that up with Jehovah. But, be careful, the scriptures warn to be quick about listening and slow about speaking.
    When one's spiritual sences are dulled, they have a hard time hearing. That is why I said, "Read it carefully, prayerfully and humbly." Don't be so quick to speak. Examine these scriptue for yourself. READ the scriptures listed!! Granted, not all will hear, but God’s sheep will. That is why Jesus said,
    "Everyone on the side of truth listens to my voice." John 18:37
    Don't be so quick to condemn. You might find yourself actually a fighter against God.
    "but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them;) otherwise, you may perhaps be found fighters actually against God." Act.5:39


  • Onetruesource

    I Completely misread you. I thought you were one of JW's. That changes everything. That shows you never really new the truth. You never had the faith. You should have because Jehovah used them as a dragnet to find his sheep. Sorry you never responded. But about your assertions of their teaching are not head and shoulder above the rest, I asked you to list any others that could qualify. I'm awaiting................... Jehovah wanted us to have faith. Have you read any of the scriptures that I listed?


  • Zep
    That changes everything. That shows you never really new the truth. You never had the faith. You should have because Jehovah used them as a dragnet to find his sheep. Sorry you never responded.

    I should have huh!

    As i said, because they CHOOSE to use the NAME JEHOVAH proves nothing...People who CHOOSE to handle snakes in the south think that proves they are Gods Chosen, so what!.I'm not sure that the Bible is Gods word or just mans.Modern Israel huh?...who says 'modern israel' has to be obervable today, maybe it hasn't arrived!, maybe its centuries down the track, maybe never?.If they(jw) are the true source as you seem to claim then lets see them produce the fruits...because they haven't produced Squat to warrant peoples trust and the label 'THE TRUTH'....until they produce some reasonable proof/fruits here is 10 good reasons they dont deserve a second glance by anyone


  • Onetruesource

    These are words of Jesus:
    “This is why I speak to them by the use of illustrations, because , looking, they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, neither do they get the sense of it; and toward them the prophecy of Isaiah is having fulfillment, which says, ‘By hearing, you will hear but by no means get the sense of it; and, looking, you will look but by no means see. For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes; that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back, and I heal them’.”
    “However, happy are your eyes because they behold, and your ears because they hear. For I truly say to, Many prophets and righteous men desired to see the things you are beholding and did not see them, and to hear the things you are hearing and did not hear them.” Matt. 13:13-17.


  • Seven
    We may never figure out the toes and horns of Daniel's beasts, or the intricacies of Revelation 12. But if only we could believe that our struggle really is against principalities and powers, if only we could believe that God will prove himself trustworthy and set right all that is wrong, if only we could demonstrate God's passion for justice and truth in this world-then I think the prophets will have accomplished their most urgent mission-Philip Yancey


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