One Soldier's Viewpoint of Iraq

by ThiChi 92 Replies latest social current

  • dubla
    dubla

    abaddon-

    unless of course you will stop saying what you'd like to be the case and actually try to suppoprt your assertations.

    fair enough.....heres a little support for my view that the u.s. opinion of saddams threat hasnt been shaped by "the right" or any "brainwashing tool of the right".......unless of course you consider clinton to be somehow involved in this fox news conspiracy........

    bold/italic mine:

    Text Of Clinton Statement On Iraq

    I want you, and I want the American people, to hear directly from me what is at stake for America in the Persian Gulf, what we are doing to protect the peace, the security, the freedom we cherish, why we have taken the position we have taken.

    So first, let's just take a step back and consider why meeting the threat posed by Saddam Hussein is important to our security in the new era we are entering.

    This is a time of tremendous promise for America. The superpower confrontation has ended; on every continent democracy is securing for more and more people the basic freedoms we Americans have come to take for granted. Bit by bit the information age is chipping away at the barriers economic, political and social that once kept people locked in and freedom and prosperity locked out.

    But for all our promise, all our opportunity, people in this room know very well that this is not a time free from peril, especially as a result of reckless acts of outlaw nations and an unholy axis of terrorists, drug traffickers and organized international criminals.

    We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st century. They feed on the free flow of information and technology. They actually take advantage of the freer movement of people, information and ideas.

    And they will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen.

    There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein's Iraq. His regime threatens the safety of his people, the stability of his region and the security of all the rest of us.

    Now, instead of playing by the very rules he agreed to at the end of the Gulf War, Saddam has spent the better part of the past decade trying to cheat on this solemn commitment. Consider just some of the facts:

    Iraq repeatedly made false declarations about the weapons that it had left in its possession after the Gulf War. When UNSCOM would then uncover evidence that gave lie to those declarations, Iraq would simply amend the reports.

    For example, Iraq revised its nuclear declarations four times within just 14 months and it has submitted six different biological warfare declarations, each of which has been rejected by UNSCOM.

    In 1995, Hussein Kamal, Saddam's son-in-law, and the chief organizer of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program, defected to Jordan. He revealed that Iraq was continuing to conceal weapons and missiles and the capacity to build many more.

    Then and only then did Iraq admit to developing numbers of weapons in significant quantities and weapon stocks. Previously, it had vehemently denied the very thing it just simply admitted once Saddam Hussein's son-in-law defected to Jordan and told the truth. Now listen to this, what did it admit?

    It admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability notably 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs.

    And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production.

    As if we needed further confirmation, you all know what happened to his son-in-law when he made the untimely decision to go back to Iraq.

    Next, throughout this entire process, Iraqi agents have undermined and undercut UNSCOM. They've harassed the inspectors, lied to them, disabled monitoring cameras, literally spirited evidence out of the back doors of suspect facilities as inspectors walked through the front door. And our people were there observing it and had the pictures to prove it.

    This includes nearly 40,000 chemical weapons, more than 100,000 gallons of chemical weapons agents, 48 operational missiles, 30 warheads specifically fitted for chemical and biological weapons, and a massive biological weapons facility at Al Hakam equipped to produce anthrax and other deadly agents.

    http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/

    just a few clips from clinton outlining the danger saddam posed at the time (this was 1998, a time when most opposers are now saying saddam couldnt have had any wmds left). so basically, we heard the same things about saddam through three different presidents over four terms........and yet, fox news somehow controlled this widespread opinion?

    aa

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    dubla

    Slice it anyway you like; you said you'd not looked into FOX ("I havent done any research on fox,"), yet at the same time you were advancing opinions ("fox hasnt shaped the U.S. opinion (or any broad opinion for that matter) of saddam/the war") on it that implied you knew what you were talking about.

    Your statement regarding whether or not the USA liked Iraq befor the war has nothing to do with your insistance that FOX doesn't shape opnions.

    If you've been vauge or mistated your case, say so and re-phrase.

  • dubla
    dubla

    abaddon-

    Your statement regarding whether or not the USA liked Iraq befor the war has nothing to do with your insistance that FOX doesn't shape opnions.

    youre using a bit of a strawman here. i didnt say that "fox doesnt shape opinions" (i think that would be hard to prove one way or the other), what i said was that fox hasnt shaped the opinion people have of saddam. there is a huge difference here, and i dont think ive been vague whatsoever. and when did i say anything about the usa liking or disliking iraq? im pretty sure our opinion of the country as a whole has nothing to do with my argument. its pretty simple, so lets not muddy the waters, okay? i stated specifically:

    saddam made his own bed with the public long before fox news even existed.

    and you came back asking me to support my assertions. so, i showed that weve been getting the SAME information about saddam given to us by three different presidents through four terms....thus proving my point about our opinion of him being shaped without any help from one specific news channel.....that in fact weve been getting this info before fox was around, and its stayed very consistent throughout the last decade plus. so, am i being vague?

    aa

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    dubla

    One of the area where FOX showed itself to be four time more likely to cause misconceptions was regarding whether;

    "the U.S. had found clear evidence that Saddam Hussein had worked closely with Al Qaeda".

    Scroll up and read it.

    Thus your assertion

    "fox hasnt shaped the opinion people have of saddam"

    ... is not true.

    It really is that simple.

    Hey, how come no one in the "Republican Male Voice Choir" has come up with the reasons for the high level of misconceptions FOX viewers have in comparison to other broadcasters?

    Come on, are FOX viewers more likely to be stupid than other channel's viewers, are FOX journalists incompetant, or is their reporting biased and spun?

    Yeru? Didn't you say you watched FOX? You've certainly commented on it's journalsitic integrity...

    ThiChi?

  • dubla
    dubla

    abaddon-

    Thus your assertion

    "fox hasnt shaped the opinion people have of saddam"

    ... is not true.

    It really is that simple.

    yes, youre right....until fox came along and convinced everyone that saddam was in bed with al qaeda, the vast majority no doubt held him in the highest regard.

    aa

  • dubla
    dubla

    abaddon-

    my point was, and is, really this simple........saddam was a bad guy way before fox news came into existance. everyone was told saddam was a bad guy way before fox news came into existance (not to mention weve been fed the same information about him by "the left" and "the right"). the general opinion of saddam has been extremely poor since before fox news came into existance. continue on with your brainwashing theories, but it wont change those simple points, which cannot be disproved.

    aa

  • Simon
    Simon
    my point was, and is, really this simple........saddam was a bad guy way before fox news came into existance. everyone was told saddam was a bad guy way before fox news came into existance. the general opinion of saddam has been extremely poor since before fox news came into existance. continue on with your brainwashing theories, but it wont change those simple points, .

    I disagree with this. If it's true then why was Rumsfeld visiting him & selling him arms? eh?

    No doubt Fox at the time peddled the view that he was an illustrious and valuable ally, holding back the forces of iran

  • dubla
    dubla

    simon-

    No doubt Fox at the time peddled the view that he was an illustrious and valuable ally, holding back the forces of iran

    youre in over your head here. fox news wasnt even around until 1996.

    fact checking before you comment will help prevent blathering.

    aa

  • Simon
    Simon

    The Times at least has owned up to it's poor and biased reporting:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5066178/

  • Simon
    Simon
    youre in over your head here. fox news wasnt even around until 1996

    I stand corrected. We have had to endure the owners biased reporting for much longer.

    Another possibility for the wild opinions held by Fox Viewers:

    However, it is possible that people watch Fox News because they have these false impressions, not the other way around

    http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/FOX%20News

    It's highly likely that certain republican elements only want to hear what they want to hear and not what the reality is.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit