Realist, On Israel

by Yerusalyim 95 Replies latest social current

• 

  blacksheep

  was very tempted to agree with it. but rationally speaking there is no reason to be ashamed. human do what they do. it would be just as silly to be ashamed for what lions do.

  We've had this discussion before. While you obviously don't believe there's a difference between animals and humans, there is. Animals base their actions are instinct; humans have the ability and responsibility to have consciences; to value and uphold human life.

  I think it was Mark Twain who observed:" Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to."
• 

  blacksheep

  also only about 1/3 of the germans voted for hitler - and the vast majority of them not because of his race BS but because he promised a way out of the misery germany was in after WWI (embargo, reparations, inflation, 30% unemployment rate etc.).

  He played the germanic population like a fiddle: they bought into, lock stock and barrel, Hitler's appeal to them that the Aryan race was superior to all others; unfortunately, the jews were on the lowest rung to him. So they should be exterminated. He gained their support to attempt to totally anhiliate innocent people for no reason other than their race.

  That nothing short of dastardly. The majority of German people actually BELIEVED this was appropriate.
• 

  Realist

  blacksheep,

  as you now i never said there is no difference between animals and humans. obviously humans have a higher mental capacity than even chimps and bonobos. what i am questioning is the assumption that humans are worth more because of their superior intellect. but thats beside the point.

  what is of relevance is however that humans like animals cannot escape their behavior. as i pointed out in the discussion with AlanF is that we have no way of escaping our destiny so to speak. our path cannot be predicted or changed.

  just saw your second post. once again you demonstrate you have no idea about anything.

  Before the crash, 1.25 million people were unemployed in Germany. By the end of 1930 the figure had reached nearly 4 million, 15.3 per cent of the population. Even those in work suffered as many were only working part-time. With the drop in demand for labour, wages also fell and those with full-time work had to survive on lower incomes. Hitler, who was considered a fool in 1928 when he predicted economic disaster, was now seen in a different light. People began to say that if he was clever enough to predict the depression maybe he also knew how to solve it.

  By 1932 over 30 per cent of the German workforce was unemployed. In the 1933 Election campaign, Adolf Hitler promised that if he gained power he would abolish unemployment. He was lucky in that the German economy was just beginning to recover when he came into office. However, the policies that Hitler introduced did help to reduce the number of people unemployed in Germany.

  but i admire you for posting on every topic!
• 

  little witch

  Blacksheep, with all due respect, I disagree.

  Many German Jews and French Jews praised their nation and government whilst knowing what was happening in Eastern Europe! They protested their treatment claiming honor to the Fatherland!

  Now if the German Jews were doing so it stands to reason that there was dissention also amoungst the gentile population. To paint a population in one stroke is just silly. Labels and stereotypes are not reality.

  Did you know for instance that French Jews were willing on a large scale willing to let the fleeing Eastern European Jews to be concentrated and evicted?

  The history is much deeper than it appears at present. I would encourage you to read up and educate yourself on the historical events. There are many authors that are survivors that give accurate, first person accounts of their experiences.
• 

  blacksheep

  Many German Jews and French Jews praised their nation and government whilst knowing what was happening in Eastern Europe! They protested their treatment claiming honor to the Fatherland!

  I'm not sure what you are trying to suggest, but if you can say with a straight face that there was Jewish support for what Hitler was doing, then you should definately provide some sources here. Otherwise, you're just babbling.

  And to both you and Unreal...since you fancy yourselves such the expert on this topic...why don't you go Prague. Why not take a whirl around the Jewish Museum. There you can see lovely drawings of Jewish children who were internned in ghettos. At the bottom of the picture is the date they died...

  I am utterly flaberghasted by your attempts to rewrite history. But again, I'll give you the beneift of the doubt and assume you have solid sources to support your claims.
• 

  blacksheep

  what is of relevance is however that humans like animals cannot escape their behavior. as i pointed out in the discussion with AlanF is that we have no way of escaping our destiny so to speak. our path cannot be predicted or changed.

  Oh, so that "destiny" includes mass genocide of certain racial/ethnic/religious groups? I see.
• 

  blacksheep

  just saw your second post. once again you demonstrate you have no idea about anything.

  Before the crash, 1.25 million people were unemployed in Germany. By the end of 1930 the figure had reached nearly 4 million, 15.3 per cent of the population. Even those in work suffered as many were only working part-time. With the drop in demand for labour, wages also fell and those with full-time work had to survive on lower incomes. Hitler, who was considered a fool in 1928 when he predicted economic disaster, was now seen in a different light. People began to say that if he was clever enough to predict the depression maybe he also knew how to solve it.

  By 1932 over 30 per cent of the German workforce was unemployed. In the 1933 Election campaign, Adolf Hitler promised that if he gained power he would abolish unemployment. He was lucky in that the German economy was just beginning to recover when he came into office. However, the policies that Hitler introduced did help to reduce the number of people unemployed in Germany.

  Uh, "no idea about anything?" Aren't you the guy who got "hurt" when someone suggested you were "dense?" I guess dual rules apply here.

  Regardless, simply because you suggest that Hitler was voted in because he promised employment to the unemployed does NOT in any way discount the fact that Hitler appealed to the Germanic sense of superiority and national pride. THIS was how he was able to accomplish systematic genocide of Jews.

  but i admire you for posting on every topic!

  Hey bud, I'm posting about as much as YOU are on "every topic."
• 

  little witch

  Blacksheep,

  My source (as I stated on page two of this thread) is A History of the Holocaust, by Yehuda Bauer, a formost scholar on the Holocaust and the events leading up to it.

  In it, he and others state that the German Jews were established in that country, some for thousands of years (since the diaspora). He went on to explain that many of these particular Jews were upset with the onslaught of Eastern European Jews migrating and upsetting everybody with their problems. Included in the book are direct papers written by German Jews siding with the Natzi party that the Eastern European Jews were outsiders and were a drain on society. This was well after the Polish Jews were in the Ghetto's of Warsaw.

  He gives many accounts of both French and German Jews who were very loyal to their governments. Now that is not babbling or ME "rewriting history". It was simply an account of what I read in MR. Bauers book.

  The part that I said I disagreed with you about was the notion that Hitler invented the anti-semite thought. That is not true. He capitalized on the idea, and it went over well, because the ideology of Jews as "christ killers" and "world domination" conspiracy theories were widespread and culterally impeded across Europe.

  I in no way consider myself "an expert", as I stated, I am just now beginning in depth research of these things. I apologize if I came across as something different.
• 

  blacksheep

  The part that I said I disagreed with you about was the notion that Hitler invented the anti-semite thought. That is not true. He capitalized on the idea, and it went over well, because the ideology of Jews as "christ killers" and "world domination" conspiracy theories were widespread and culterally impeded across Europe.

  And when did I say that Hitler "invented" anti-semitism? He absolutely did not. What I said was that he was a master at explointing German sense of national pride; he CLEARLY built upon existing frustrations and prejudices which allowed him support to do things which are immoral, anti-human. In his own personal megalomania, he inpired a national megolomania of the Superior, Aryan race, which paved the way for his attempts to systematically destroy "inferiors."
• 

  Realist

  black,

  first of all, only a third of the people ever voted for hitler. so to claim all germans fell for his race ideology is obviously baloney. secondly, of the ones who voted for him most did so because of economical reasons.

  and yes it certainly appealed to some people that he wanted to make germany great again and that he viewed germans as best people in the world. the same ideology would appeal to some people in the US or any country as well.

  Hey bud, I'm posting about as much as YOU are on "every topic."

  in contrast to you i post on topics i know something about.