by Yerusalyim 119 Replies latest social current
And why is that?! Because they preferred to violently annihilate the Jewish race than live peacefully as their neighbors. Someday maybe people will realize that not everyone wants peace in this world - and that includes groups such as Hammas and Al-Quaeda. So, between the two of these groups, that makes one down, and one more to go.
Exactly! I couldn't agree with you more.
Devon
Didn't israel have a hand in founding hamas?
SS
Here it is:
Israel and Hamas may currently be locked in deadly combat, but, according to several current and former U.S. intelligence officials, beginning in the late 1970s, Tel Aviv gave direct and indirect financial aid to Hamas over a period of years.
Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.
Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.
According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement's spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work.
According to U.S. administration officials, funds for the movement came from the oil-producing states and directly and indirectly from Israel. The PLO was secular and leftist and promoted Palestinian nationalism. Hamas wanted to set up a transnational state under the rule of Islam, much like Khomeini's Iran.
Israel was certainly funding the group at that time. One U.S. intelligence source who asked not to be named said that not only was Hamas being funded as a "counterweight" to the PLO, Israeli aid had another purpose: "To help identify and channel towards Israeli agents Hamas members who were dangerous terrorists."
In addition, by infiltrating Hamas, Israeli informers could only listen to debates on policy and identify Hamas members who "were dangerous hard-liners," the official said.
In the end, as Hamas set up a very comprehensive counterintelligence system, many collaborators with Israel were weeded out and shot. Violent acts of terrorism became the central tenet, and Hamas, unlike the PLO, was unwilling to compromise in any way with Israel, refusing to acquiesce in its very existence.
But even then, some in Israel saw some benefits to be had in trying to continue to give Hamas support: "The thinking on the part of some of the right-wing Israeli establishment was that Hamas and the others, if they gained control, would refuse to have any part of the peace process and would torpedo any agreements put in place," said a U.S. government official who asked not to be named.
"Israel would still be the only democracy in the region for the United States to deal with," he said.
All of which disgusts some former U.S. intelligence officials.
"The thing wrong with so many Israeli operations is that they try to be too sexy," said former CIA official Vincent Cannestraro.
According to former State Department counter-terrorism official Larry Johnson, "the Israelis are their own worst enemies when it comes to fighting terrorism."
"The Israelis are like a guy who sets fire to his hair and then tries to put it out by hitting it with a hammer."
http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r
Are we ignoring this?
SS
Israel must exist
Why?
Israel is a fake nation created by a dying superpower, then propped up by another. When the current Bush goes away and support for the Israelis go away, Israel will be wiped off the map. If wasnt a land without a people for a people without a land. They can have Antarctica.
Israel must existWhy?
Well, for one reason, Great Britain "ruled" the area until the late 40's and had a big hand in setting the country up.
If anyone is interested in reading about the establishment of Israel as a state, but does not enjoy dry history, I would recommend the novel "Exodus" by Leon Uris. Also, the link provided earlier by Devon gives a fairly concise explanation of the history involved from day one, which goes back centuries.
Basically, all the decisions about establishing boundaries were made by OTHER nations such as Britain & France in the 19th and 20th centuries. The Jews and Palestinians had little to say about it, although the US lobbied for Israel rather strongly.
It's a very knotty problem.
Where were the Jews supposed to go? They were being forced to live in ghettos, had their governments murdering them left and right. Europe was not safe - Russia was not safe, many of them fled and even WALKED to Israel to 'reclaim' their land.
The Palestinians just had the world come in and say, 'well, we're giving this portion of your land to them'.
Who is right? Who is wrong? We can't go back and change history ... I feel very sad every time I hear the news about this part of the world. They have had war every since I can remember (60s), and there seems to be little hope of a workable solution.
talesin
Simon,
Why must Israel exist? Might have something to do with the abundant anti-semetism found in europe.
On Saturday, I attended the "anti-occupation" rally in Hollywood. Aside from having fun with a group of counter protesters (my thoughts on this later), I stayed to listen to the rhetoric that was to be espoused by the organizers of this protest. One thing that struck me was thewaving of the Palestinian flag. I spoke with one of these people, and I asked him if he knew the history of this area. I asked him pointedly if he knew that the U.N. had created a Palestinian state along with the "Zionist state" (his words, not mine). Not suprisingly, he did not. He said however, that the Jews have no right to exist in that land. I asked him if that is the view of these Palestinian supporters. He said, "By far, the majority, agree with this." I asked him if he felt that murdering innocent Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics, hijacking the Israeli jet liner and flying it to Entebbe (sp?), Uganda, the bombings of various buses, restaurants, etc. was justified? He said, "Without a doubt, yes!" I lastly asked him what would satisfy him and his compatriots in regards to Israel. He said the complete and utter destruction of the "Zionists and their state." I aksed him if he has informed the organizers of this rally of his and his movements violent intentions. He said, "we will not tell these people that, and lose their support."
Just some food for thought.
quite poigniant...and our young Hamas founder had sworn to the destruction of Israel and the Jews....by the way...he is(well, was) Egyptian.
Why is it ok that we hunt down Bin Laden, but when the Israelis hunt down their "Bin Laden" it's a travisty.
Simon, question...do you condone the terrorism committed by the Palestinians?
