McVeigh vs Death Penalty (page 8)

JanH

Ros,

I would be agreeable to the abolition of the death penalty for PROVEN wanton murderers on those terms.

This is the same silly, vacuous argument I already rebutted.

It is already an absolute principle of every system of justice that you do not sentence anyone to anything unless guilt is proven beyond any reasonable doubt. If there is any room for doubt, you acquit. No question!

You seem to suggest a two-level verdict system for murderers: innocent, probably guilty and proven guilty, and where the "proven guilty" are executed and the "probably guilty" are sent to prison. Can you imagine the increase in innocent people being sent to prison? I hope you have just not given this any serious thought.

Your attempt to make this into a question of money just makes me sick. "Kill them because it's cheaper!" Don't you have any morality whatsoever?

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

ros

Hi, Jan:

You seem to suggest a two-level verdict system for murderers: innocent, probably guilty and proven guilty, and where the "proven guilty" are executed and the "probably guilty" are sent to prison. Can you imagine the increase in innocent people being sent to prison? I hope you have just not given this any serious thought.

I don't think so. My contention only addressed the case of proven sadistic murders. If I understand what you are suggesting, you would support liberating the "probably guilty"?

Going beyond the point of whether capital punishment is murder or not, and getting into the ridiculousness of the whole judicial process is another entirely different discussion. Even more so than religion.

Your attempt to make this into a question of money just makes me sick. "Kill them because it's cheaper!" Don't you have any morality whatsoever?

Hey, did I say which way I would vote? As I've said, my solution would be a penal colony on a remote island in the Pacific. Jan, obviously my point in suggesting a vote for taxation was tongue-in-cheek since we are reasonably sure such a thing will never happen. My point was not which way I would vote, or "kill them because its cheaper", but to point out that imo the morality of most people is in their pocketbook. (I COULD be wrong--and certainly there are exceptions, no doubt like yourself.)
On the other hand, it does bother my conscience that I made you sick--I wouldn't want to do that.

Ros
"A religion that teaches lies cannot be true"--The Watchtower, 12/1/91 pg. 7

Cowboy

I have always been on the fence about the death penalty until now(being raised a JW I wasn't supposed to have an opinion on anything).But I still think if there is any chance that executing this man will deter even one potential killer it will be worth it.I don't expect to feel one bit better after he dies,nor do I expect to feel worse.I know many of the survivors look forward to some kind of closure,but I fear a lot of them will be disappointed.I do have to admit that many of you raise some good arguments against.I appreciate getting to speak my mind. And thanks for the thoughts Acupulco Gold.

JanH

"Cowboy", a new ID here, wrote:

I have always been on the fence about the death penalty until now(being raised a JW I wasn't supposed to have an opinion on anything).But I still think if there is any chance that executing this man will deter even one potential killer it will be worth it.I don't expect to feel one bit better after he dies,nor do I expect to feel worse.I know many of the survivors look forward to some kind of closure,but I fear a lot of them will be disappointed.I do have to admit that many of you raise some good arguments against.I appreciate getting to speak my mind. And thanks for the thoughts Acupulco Gold.

Sigh. How many identities do you have? Who do you think you're fooling addressing yourself?

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

AcapulcoGold

hey cowboy - thanks.

i still think my idea is the best - make janh the ruler of the world - he has the FINAL SOLUTION for everything coz he's a scholar - sure we'd have a ruler with no heart humanity wit insight imagination talent or charisma but you have to make allowances for fascist automatons so they say.

AG

JanH

Ros,
You obviously have not been using much brain energy to consider the issue of crime and punishment. I suggest you do.

If I understand what you are suggesting, you would support liberating the "probably guilty"?

Of course.

If you are 51% certain that a particular defendent "did it", he or she is probably guilty. This is how it often works in civil cases, because one or the other party is right or wrong.

Of course, if you imprison people based on what you think they probably did, just under half the prison population will end up being innocent people.

It requires proof beyond reasonable doubt to convict. That is a principle of justice universally agreed upon.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

JanH

hey cowboy - thanks.
i still think my idea is the best - make janh the ruler of the world - he has the FINAL SOLUTION for everything coz he's a scholar - sure we'd have a ruler with no heart humanity wit insight imagination talent or charisma but you have to make allowances for fascist automatons so they say.
AG

I just wanted to save this before you delete it, AG, You're not only an asshole, but an incompetent one.

- Jan
--
Faith, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel. [Ambrose Bierce, The Devil´s Dictionary, 1911]

AcapulcoGold

ros - but i'm guilty of being cowboy with 0% proof - oh the irony!

stick to your story robot!!.

guys for janh's "opinion" on anything visit

http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~kim/Thesis.html

most enlightening.

AG

ps. re: your saving the post - go ahead robot i'm happy to have everyone read it twice - i'm going through the archives to find a brilliant piece of your dirty laundry right now i'm sure everyone will enjoy heaps more and you can save and post that a few times as well if you like.

i cant wait til cowboy shows again and makes you look like the consumate comprehensively fascist inhumane politically correct wishy washy neither here nor there dumb left/right wing irrevocably confused deluded second hand unoriginal dipstick non entity you undoubtedly are ( and they're you're good points).

Cowboy

Jan-I assure you Acupulco Gold and I are two entirely different people.I have been watching this site since I got online-just a few weeks-enjoying the views of so many with similiar pasts to my own.This thread hits close to home for me,and thats what prompted me to begin posting.I'm sure you'll figure out the difference one of these days.

COMF

The instructions for creating a fourier transform on a Motorola 68000 machine constitute JanH's opinion on anything?

I guess I'm going to need some explanation.

COMF

McVeigh vs Death Penalty

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