McVeigh vs Death Penalty (page 10)

Tina

Hi mark,
McV does not deserve this folkhero status you are giving him.
Other social injustices dont have much to do with this case.
It would be the height of fairness and compassion to reserve that empathy for the victims and survivors.
I find nothing noble about people,whatever their cause/issue,using such militancy to make their statement.Peace,Tina

buffalosrfree

Timothy Mcveigh's right to life will end and we the american people who have had to support the asshole won't be having to support him anymore and supply him with food, clothing, water or a place to sleep. The question of whether or not the death penalty deters crime can be answered with a resounding YES. I haven't yet learned of any criminal executed *do to the death penalty* committing any more crimes, so I would say yes the death penalty deters crime. If you know of any criminals committing offenses after being hanged, electricuted, gases, or permanently put to sleep by all means let those of us on the board know. I could also give a shit less about his right to life nonsense. In a different vein, in a different time setting and a different country he may have been regared as a gureilla fighter and eventually even adopted to help run his countries government *just a thought*. Buff

Englishman

Terraly,

You make some excellent points. Maybe the people who are living in societies that still execute their citizens need to take a long hard look at themselves. There is a communal responsibility in a democratic society, maybe more people need to question their elected representatives about their stance on capital punishment BEFORE giving them their vote.

Aside from that, I have already drawn comparisons between pro-execution individuals and the WTBTS. My reason is that it seems to me that religious societies tend not to hold the saving of life as being important, the individual being downgraded as unimportant when compared to the religious ideology that so many hold dear.

I wonder then, if the US were somewhat less religious, would it also lose it zeal for the death penalty? After all, the enthusiasm with which religious people condemn the world as a whole, their prophecies of death to most of mankind - imagine, if you will, You Know wreaking havoc with his ass's jawbone - isn't it religious people who are some of capital punishments staunchest supporters?

Englishman.

..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

AcapulcoGold

terally - BUTT OUT!! - they both came from the SAME web site - ie. NOT ROBOCOP -

ROBOCOP admitted he stole the information from the thesis of kim oyhus and gave no credit to the TRUE AUTHOR elsewhere on this site -

ROBOCOP will be back to admit he STOLE it - along with yet another half baked, half assed "reason" as to why - which all his similarly afflicted delusional/denial blinded non discriminating sycophant cronies will swallow/support hook line and sinker again - sooner or later - this is not a question of the formatting - it's a question of the origin of the information posted - which was - to put it briefly - NOT ROBOCOP.

AG

ros

To Englishman:

Please excuse me if some of this was covered in a thread titled something like "Yanks vs Brits", or something. (I didn't happen to read that one.)
QUESTIONS:
Do you maintain that Britain is not a religious Society? How is the U.S. more a religious society than Britain?

May we assume that you would not support killing people of another nationality for political reasons (war).

Ros
"A religion that teaches lies cannot be true"--The Watchtower, 12/1/91 pg. 7

Seeker

Timothy Mcveigh's right to life will end and we the american people who have had to support the asshole won't be having to support him anymore and supply him with food, clothing, water or a place to sleep.

Which would have been cheaper than executing him, as it happens. Thus the American people will have to support him more this way, which does undermine your argument a bit.

The question of whether or not the death penalty deters crime can be answered with a resounding YES. I haven't yet learned of any criminal executed *do to the death penalty* committing any more crimes, so I would say yes the death penalty deters crime. If you know of any criminals committing offenses after being hanged, electricuted, gases, or permanently put to sleep by all means let those of us on the board know.

Since criminals serving life in prison also are prevented from committing offenses against the public, execution adds nothing extra to the equation. So much for deterrence.

Englishman

Ros,

I would definitely say that England is less fervently religious than the United States. People over here seem to recoil from organised religion.

It does seem that the more fundamentalist a society is in terms of its religion the more vigorously it enforces ‘punishment’ for breaking that society’s laws e.g. capital punishment.

A more liberal and less fundamentalist society tends to be more tolerant and recognises individuality and diversity. These societies are usually ‘softer’ in their treatment of criminals.

So, why is this? It could be because religious fundamentalism demands a mental and emotional rigidity that requires regulated and obedient behaviour from everyone. People who do not follow a rigid religious doctrine have the capacity to believe people can change and would rather educate than punish. They would rather that people saw the sense in following laws than instil fear or social retribution e.g. capital punishment.

When I hear that religions condone capital punishment I question whether they are really serving their God or whether they are merely aligning with social leaders to control their society. Marx may have had a point. Religious organisations are more to do with man and power here on earth than with spiritual issues. The Bible I know is full of contradictions, but few Christians would disagree that love and forgiveness is an overriding theme. Capital punishment is unforgiving, it is judgemental, it is final, and it is about man – not God.

Englishman.

..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

rutht

Englishman,

First, I recently saw something on t.v. that said that crime is up in England. Is that true?
Second, I am not up on all my religions, so I was wondering what religions condone the death penalty? I know the Catholic Church is against it. I would suppose most mainstream religions are also.
Third, do you consider China and Saudi Arabia to be "fundamentalist countries"?
Thanks,
Rutht

Englishman

Rutht,

UK crimes re theft of property are indeed up. However, violent crime is diminishing, some `experts` believe that this is due to our society tending to lean more towards humanism and less towards God.

Most religions will not give away their stance on the death penalty, preferring to leave their accolytes room to maoeuvre the subject to its best useage. In the 60's & 70's the WTBTS upheld the death penalty, their stance was that murderers must die, I even recall a case of a death-row inmate who became converted to witnessism stopping his own appeal process because he was convinced that, as a now good JW, he should die. This was regailed to us at a district assembly as part of "Songs and Experiences".

Englishman.

..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

jelly

Hello Englishman,

Normally I limit myself to the lighter post simply because I have
no desire to argue with strangers, but I wanted to ask englishman two
questions.

(1) If you believe that relgions are the driving force behind the cultural desire to use the death penalty what about China, a communist country that is atheistic (sp?)?

(2) Do you realize that the Catholic church, one of the worlds largest churches, is against the death penalty?

Jelly

McVeigh vs Death Penalty

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