McVeigh vs Death Penalty (page 26)

teejay

Mark, you’re a funny guy! You believe that mcveigh will be viewed as a hero some day because in blowing up a building and killing scores of people he alerted us dim witted Americans that our right to own hand guns (or assault rifles) was going to lost.

Then you cite a case of a mother drowning her own child. By your reasoning, the mother will soon reach heroine status since the public’s awareness of the dangers of infants around bathtubs will be increased.

You need to give this mcveigh thing a rest, buddy. The guy was not a hero. He was a punk, a coward, who also showed signs of severe phycosis. And I’m glad he’s dead. The mother should be executed as well, imo.

crossroads

Teejay--The mother will not be a heroine--for she lives.
Yes she lives to have another child that she may or may
not neglect, defintely no hero status for her.

She had nothing to say or stand for she was flirting
with the guy next door. Her evil was far greater than
McVeigh's.

BTW out here in hot sunny Arizona you can't count the
times you see a commercial on T.V. about keeping
your kids safe from water so my friend there is much
"public awareness". Tell me ol' man how many times
a day everday of the week for more than six months
out of the year for year after year---Have you seen
Clinton signing the ban on assault rifles? Now I'm
against guns like I have said and I knew Clinton signed
something along those lines. But really until McVeigh
did what he did I really did not take in all the ramifications.
It is not I who will elevate McVeigh to hero status it will be
all gun loving americans who do when there guns are
taken away----as for me I can't wait for the ban.

He was not a coward in the gulf war after the gulf war
while he was driving the ryder truck or lighting the bomb
and he wasn't a coward when they put him to sleep for
what he believed in.

Cowboy

Timothy McVegh-A martyr?Sadly,to some misguided souls,he is.There is no if or maybe about it.I know this for a fact.Whether you want to believe me or not,it is true.
A coward?Maybe not in the gulf war,maybe not in the death chamber,but when he lit that fuse and turned his back on that building full of innocent people,he was the biggest coward of all time.

Crossroads-visit the Oklahoma City National Memorial,and then tell me those people deserved to die for his cause.I'm not saying that victims of military operations deserve to die either,but two wrongs don't make a right.Waco and Ruby Ridge were another matter entirely,those people could have surrendered peacefully and walked away unharmed.McVeigh didn't give the people in the Murrah building that chance.

Cowboy

crossroads

Cowboy I love your posts down at the cafe.
Think about this before you answer. What adult U.S.
citizen(I include myself) can say they are INNOCENT?
Anybody?

TheOldHippie

Dear JanH,
I very, very rarely agree with you on something, but finally I can! Death penalty places the USA among the terrorist nations of the world, as Iran, Iraq, China etc. Murdering mentally retarded, youths, and above all blacks and Hispanics clearly shows the sickness of that nation.
In order to join the European Council, the nation has to abolish death penalty, and even Russia did this a couple of years ago. Abolishing death penalty is what is here regarded as one point showing the nation is a rather civilized one.
The circus surrounding the murdering of poor Timothy McVeigh made me sick.

mommy

Just think for a second what you are all saying!

Well, we can let him get off with life in prison, but that one has to die

If it was any other crime, we may choose life in prison, but he deserves death

Well, he admitted to it let's kill him.

Who of you decides what is punishable by death Who of you can say, that you will never, ever commit a crime? Is another human able to make the choice of taking another humans life? And what about the gray area?

I just wish everyone who is soooo happy there is a death penalty will just think for a second, what they are saying. You sound just as cold and heartless as a person who just killed 168 people.

I don't think America will ever forget McVeigh, or Ruby ridge, or Waco, or the World trade center bombing. We have not been bloodied as some parts of the world has been. Is it over? No way...we still have a ways to go. We are a young country, and still have many kinks to work out. I hope for our children's sake it will happen soon. If everyone one of us would try to change a little part of ourselves and try for peace and understanding, it may happen. But too many hold onto hate, that they are not even aware of. I really do hope you seriously ask yourself that question. Who the heck are you, to rejoice in anothers death!

I am leaving this thread now, never to return...too much discrimination here
peace and love,
wendy

Blind faith can justify anything~Richard Dawkins, The selfish gene

Cowboy

Crossroads-I enjoy your posts,too.Not trying to pick a fight,but...

Maybe you missed my first post on this subject.My eighteen month old nephew was killed in the bombing,my sister in law was in the building but survived.The only thing that my nephew(and the other babies)was guilty of was having a mother(OK,she worked for the government)who wanted to keep her child as near her(in her mind-as safe)as possible.
Those children are innocent.

I'm sure this makes my objectivity quite low.OK,the guy had a cause.But surely there's another way to make a point than murdering babies.

Cowboy

Editing this because I just now got Crossroads point.
I see what you mean,and I can't disagree with you on the adult point.
But the children were still innocent(collateral damage?-bullshit!)

Bang A Drum
Cowboy

crossroads

OLDHIPPIE and Mommie good comments wow someone
agrees with me and I'm out of the friendly confines of the
cafe--scary thought. Cowboy no I didn't realize you had
any personal involvement with people who were killed
or hurt. I agree that INNOCENT childen died, not adults.
My point further up the thread was INNOCENT children
die everyday some killed by there loving parents these
not INNOCENT parents are not but to death. Some are
not even charged, the children remain INNOCENT and
dead. And Dead is Dead my friend by a bomb or simple
neglect. The death penalty is wrong and McVeigh is not
a coward thats my believe and I'm sticking to it.

teejay

Mark,

You have had a very difficult time in this discussion focusing on what mcveigh did. In fact, I haven't seen you do it once. You have brought into the discussion your brother had two tours in Vietnam; a mother drowns her baby in PHX; Eisenhower drops bombs on two Japanese cities; what adult alive today is innocent; on and on. You refuse to look at what HE did.

Your take is very simplistic. No one is perfect, but thousands, maybe millions of people are walking around with legtimate concerns, gripes, complaints about the government but you don't see them blowing up buildings or killing people to make a point. They get involved politically, socially to bring about change. Cowards do what mcveigh did.

For you people whose hearts bleed for poor mcveigh's sorry ass, let me say that if we had just popped up on an island somewhere and didn't know what forms of behavior were acceptable, then we could overlook mcveigh's chosen path to address his problems. Unfortunately for that insane line of reasoning, we live in a society that hinges on personal freedom, that the greatest amount of freedom for the greatest number of people is the goal, and anyone who stands in the way of that ideal or abuses the freedoms of others should be dealt with. One of the ways we do that is to punish. He was punished.

Peace,
Todd

Ps. I am amused by your thought, mommy, that "too many hold onto hate, that they are not even aware of." Ain't it the truth, sister, ain't it the truth.

Englishman

Mommy,

I think that you made more sense than anybody.

Englishman.

..... fanaticism masquerading beneath a cloak of reasoned logic.

McVeigh vs Death Penalty

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