Making 607 crumble

by ellderwho 125 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  heianderen

  Our organization is serene, blessed by God and is used by Him to accomplich His purposes. [..] How pathetic you are.

  Scholar,

  The WT Org is anything but serene, it's rather indiscret and frantic. You only have to look behind and count how many people were stumbled by their failed predictions. According to Jesus your Org must put a stone around it's neck and jump into the river (or sea). And by the way if God is using this org, he must be the craziest god in the heavens. Sorry, if my words are insulting to you, but I must be sincere and tell you what I think.
  According to your own moral and religious rules (that is the WT code) you must confess to the elders in your congregation that you use to read spiritual pornography (this site and the apostates within), you are SINNING against your God!!! and if you don't repent you must be disfelowshiped to the glory of the "serene" WT org. This make you and hypocrite, like a Pharisee. This also make YOU pathetic.
  
  You think that you religion is the best around the town, but it has exactly the same problems that other religions have, plus some of their own relating to their authoritarian and sectarian spirit. This spirit is a reflection of the REAL father of this Org, Rutherford, a narcisistic, rude, alcoholic dude (he had all the features of a cult leader, because that is what he was) and the weirdness of one of his main "theologians", F.W. Franz.
  
  I hope you, one day, will open your eyes to the... Truth about The Truth(tm). As a spanish saying says: "The most blinded, is the one who doesn't want to see."

  _Heianderen_
• 

  LittleToe

  Scholar:

  Our chronology is biblically based, accurate and has withstood the Jonsson rubbish and the stuff based on higher criticism.

  Our organization is serene, blessed by God and is used by Him to accomplich His purposes.

  Your claims are hearsay. I do not believe what you say without evidence.
  You have a distorted view of the Lord's people and have allowed yourself to be stumbled, marking you as an immature person.
  You need to find a better religion, Church, Christianity or organization, then please inform us all.
  You do not think.
  All you can do is moan and groan.
  How pathetic you are.

  Actually, I feel for you, bro. I've been in your shoes (or at least a remarkably similar pair of brown brogues).
  Places like this increase the cognitive dissonance.
  Stick with it, you'll get there eventually...
• 

  undercover

  If you have found a better religion, Church, Christianity or organization then please inform us all. I do not think so for all you can do is moan and groan. How pathetic you are.

  Ah, the last resort of the defeated. How many times have I heard this when discussing the problems of the WTS with others? Every time they get backed into a corner they change their argument to, "do you know anything better". Well, that's not the point or the problem. The point is that the WTS has lied, deceived and mislead people for over 100 years. The problem is, should I believe anything they say after seeing so much wrong about this organization. If the WTS is the best that religion has to offer, then I'm better off without religion.
• 

  hillary_step

  Scholar,

  Before I answer your questions, such as they are, you should do the honorable thing and answer my own. I have now repeatedly asked this question with no response whatsoever from you but the typical JW ad hominem attacks.

  For example, do you remember when I eventually forced you to admit that the WTS had no ethical or moral grounds to shun those who could not agree with their chronology surrounding the year of the first fall of Jerusalem? I am sure many Board subscribers remember this. Do you also recall that I asked whether you would behave with integrity and honesty and make your views known to you local elders? Have you done this? You will never be in a position to criticize any on this Board who have done so and suffered the consequences for doing so until you show the courage that according to the Bible a person with 'Jehovah's Spirit' should have.

  You cannot utter one criticism of any person who has stood in defiance of WTS repugnant bullying until you have explained to this Board your deep-seated and dismal cowardice which allows you to believe one thing and preach another. This is called, just in case your dissonant state has allowed you to forget the word, hypocrisy.

  So, explain to us all why you believe yourslf not to be a hypocrite.

  Incidentally, you repeatedly describe Carl Jonsson's work as the 'Jonsson rubbish'. Why not publish to this Board the numerous private correspondence that you have had with Carl Jonsson. I believe it may make an interesting read, and would certainly clear up exactly where the stream of chronological 'rubbish' truly emanates from.

  Your claim aboy a member of the Governing Body expressing doubt about chronology is hearsay. do not believe what you say without evidence.

  It is indeed hearsay, and I cannot provide any evidence for my repeated statement apart from my own long-term attachment to honesty and integrity. If you need any lessons in learning such qualities, as I believe that you do, I suggest that you start with self analysis and drop the WTS propaganda which actually caters to dishonesty rather than serving its needs.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  Faraon

  Scholar,

  I have not gone away and I am always ready to pounce and defend the Society's brilliant chronology. Hilary-Step is a intellectual light weight and he does not bother be a bit' When you have earned the degrees and have Jehovah's spirit and belong to the True Religion then there is nothing to be afraid of.

  I have not gone away and [there is an overuse of the word ?and?. I suggest purchasing an elementary school book on grammar.] I am always ready to pounce and defend the Society's brilliant chronology. Hilary-Step is a [?a? should be ?an? because the next word begins with a vowel.] intellectual light weight and he does not bother be a bit' [no period after this sentence.] When you have earned the degrees and [there should be a comma instead of the word ?and?.] have Jehovah's spirit and belong to the True Religion [There is no religion registered under that name. ?True Religion? is not a proper noun. It should not be capitalized.] then [A comma here would be nice.] there is nothing to be afraid of.

  Never mind your ?advanced degrees.? What I really want to see is your fifth-grade report card. I doubt very much that you had a passing grade in spelling and in writing. People like you are a textbook example to back up the WT?s claim that higher education is useless. Is this your purpose?
• 

  Faraon

  Your claim aboy a member of the Governing Body expressing doubt about chronology is hearsay. do not believe what you say without evidence. Our chronology is biblically based, accurate and has withstood the Jonsson rubbish and the stuff based on higher criticism. Our organization is serene, blessed by God and is used by Him to accomplich His purposes. You have a distorted view of the Lord's people and have allowed yourself to be stumbeled marking you as an immature person. If you have found a better religion, Church, Christianity or organization then please inform us all. I do not think so for all you can do is moan and groan. How pathetic you are.

  Your claim aboy a member of the Governing Body expressing doubt about chronology is hearsay. do not believe what you say without evidence. Our chronology is biblically based, accurate and has withstood the Jonsson rubbish and the stuff based on higher criticism. Our organization is serene, blessed by God and is used by Him to accomplich His purposes. You have a distorted view of the Lord's people and have allowed yourself to be stumbeled marking you as an immature person. If you have found a better religion, Church, Christianity or organization then please inform us all. I do not think so for all you can do is moan and groan. How pathetic you are!

  You have a distorted view of the Lord's people and have allowed yourself to be stumbeled marking you as an immature person.

  Who marks Hilary-step? It needs clarifying. If you mean ?marking yourself,? instead of ?marking you?, then you must brush-up on the reflective mode.

  I think that you must take a crash course in punctuation. You have many run-on sentences in your posts.

  If you have found a better religion, Church, Christianity, or organization then please inform us all

  I am curious as to why "church" was capitalized, but not "religion" or "organization".

  This sentence has no logical sense. How would you write the quoted four terms in a Venn diagram?

  You only give four choices.

  I am an Agnostic. I consider it the best belief system. Yet, it was not among the choices given by you. We do the right thing only because it is right. Not because we expect a reward or fear a punishment. We don't follow a book or an organization that discriminates the handicapped, claims that women are worth only 60% of man, condones slavery, punishes transgressors by being burned to death, changes its opinion quicker than its members change clothes, does not trust its members to disagree on their own doctrine, etc.

  If my limits are those stated by you, then my answer would be: Any organization over 20 million strong who is secure enough not to use mind control or a dangerous destructive cult like the Watchtower.

  If I had to choose a religion, I would choose Catholics. At least they don't try to control a person's thoughts.

  Faraon
• 

  Earnest

  Faraon, I concluded long ago that "scholar" is probably dyslexic and hesitate to criticise his grammar and spelling for that reason. A person can be a scholar without being able to spell. The fact that he has shown himself to be a verbal inexactiduner is less excusable.
• 

  Faraon

  Earnest,

  Faraon, I concluded long ago that "scholar" is probably dyslexic and hesitate to criticise his grammar and spelling for that reason. A person can be a scholar without being able to spell. The fact that he has shown himself to be a verbal inexactiduner is less excusable. I don't think scholar is dyslexic. They usually confuse the orientation of letters, both in the horizontal and the vertical planes (p,b,d, and q look the same to them) or reverse the order of letters in a word (e.g.: They write dog instead of god.) Scholar does not show these symptoms. His writing is also puerile. He should have stopped the constant use of "and" by fifth grade and begun to use commas instead. It takes at least 17 years of schooling to obtain a master's degree in the US. He has had plenty of time to correct this problem, especially if he is a native speaker. My problem with him is that he constantly puts down people without higher education knowing fully well that the organization he defends so much has been the cause of JWs not pursuing those degrees. I was raised a Catholic, and went to a Salesian seminary for three years. Besides regular school work, they study religion and languages for four years (first year and second years: English and Latin, third and fourth years: English, Latin, Greek, and Italian). This was in addition to Spanish, since I was in Mexico at the time. They go on to the novitiate for three years. Next, they study philosophy and education for five years in which they earn a double BA. This is followed by three years of teaching practice (Salesians are dedicated to teaching children). Finally they study Theology for four years and get ordained as priests. My brother is a priest. My nephew (who is only three years younger than I) had all the requirements for ordination, but decided at the last minute not to get ordained. He has degrees in education, philosopy, theology, physics, and psychology. Never in my life did any Salesian priest, or my already mentioned relatives, said that I or anyone else couldn't debate others because if they didn't have the academic credentials. The arrogance of writing the academic credentials after a signature when a letter or posted materials are not of professional quality makes those credentials look foolish. Faraon.
• 

  hillary_step

  Earnest,

  I have to agree with Faraon. It is Scholar who has over many months sneered at numerous persons for their lack of academic credentials, including Carl Jonsson, AlanF and Raymond Franz whom he considers to lack the standards of education that he has achieved. It is he who flouts these achievements, actually using them as his on-line signature.

  What he tends to overlook however, is that many of those he sneers at on this Board are far better educated than himself and hold far more impressive credentials than he does, yet do not feel insecure enough to try to use them to win indefensible arguments.

  His scholarship, as he is the one who constantly alludes to it ( even having the on-line handle ?Scholar? ) is part of the strategy he uses to defend WTS chronology and as such is fair game in an on-line debate.

  Best regards - HS
• 

  LittleToe

  Faraon:
  That'll teach me to cut'n'paste and only do minor editing. Some of those mistakes carried over into my post.

  I think the lesson, that is needed, is to be found in the Theocratic Ministry School Guidebook. It's to be found under the section "Coherence Through Connectives".

  (LT, formerly "School Overseer" for several years )