Speaking of Generals..........
The Real Reason so many rich white men got out of service
by SixofNine 68 Replies latest jw friends
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DakotaRed
Funny, I met a few from wealthy families over there. Jimmie Stewarts step son was killed over there, as a Marine Lieutenant.
But, what do I know? I'm just one of those idiotic conservatives.
Wonder what Bill Clintons excuse was? I wouldn't say he was all that wealthy at the time.
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SixofNine
Wonder what Bill Clintons excuse was? I wouldn't say he was all that wealthy at the time.
He was opposed to the war. Wish he would have just stated that when asked though.
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Euphemism
I'm from Missouri. Show me.
Sorry, Tex, I wasn't trying to propagandize... I just couldn't resist taking you up on your challenge.
If you really want to be "shown", well, there's Dean's record as Governor of Vermont. (Did you read the link?) I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more difficult to balance the federal budget than that of a small state. But I still think it's a pretty good track record.
Politics is the art of compromise. Some politicians don't care what values they compromise, as long as they stay in office. Others will never compromise, and so they're never elected. The vast majority, I think, fall somewhere in between. I'm not comfortable tarring them all with the same brush. But that's just me.
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SixofNine
*beats head against wall more*
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CruithneLaLuna
During the American Civil War (I know, that was some time ago), Federal law allowed wealthy young men to literally BUY (for $300) less unfortunate substitute draftees. I suppose the substitutes had to offer themselves for sale - in effect, as mercenaries. While this may have been a deplorable practice, at least it was done openly, rather than via devious means.
Cruithne
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Big Tex
Sorry, Tex, I wasn't trying to propagandize
Sorry Euph. Please accept my apology for my post.
I realize, re-reading my post, how that could easily be interpreted badly. I didn't mean that in any way against you. I get such tired head when it comes to politics. I am so cynical about the entire process that when someone puts forth one particular person I tend to knee-jerk in my response.
I do a lot better when I stay off the grown up political threads.
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Yerusalyim
The whole premise of Delay's comments...and this thread...are based upon a lie.
"Supported primarily by anecdotal evidence, the class war concept seems logical. Whites faced with the draft had a higher propensity to go to college than Hispanics or blacks. And they had access to doctors and lawyers who could keep them out of the military. The arguement that the military, therefore, had to turn to blacks and Hispanics at a disproportionate rate seems hardly worth argueing about. But, this assumption ignores the fact that blacks and Hispanics both had lower rates of high school graduation and, therefore, were less likely to meet the military's basic education requirments. In additon, higher felony convictions kept more blacks and hispanics out of the military. In reality, the main factor which discriminated between who fought and died was not geography or economics but educational goals.
Young men who reached age eighteen without college plans did not get student draft deferments...while the more affluent were no doubt more likely to attend college, whatever economic bias they may have introduced into casualty rates by community was almost entirely offset by deaths among colleged educated graduates of ROTC, OTS and service academies ...all officers.
About 5% of the casualties in Vietnam were hispanic. About 12.5% were black, making both minorities slightly under-represented in relation to their proportion of draft age males in the national population. A 1992 study conducted by MIT looked at the Socio economic standing of the 58,000 who died in vietnam...of that 30% came from the lower 1/3 of the economic rung, however 26% came from the TOP 1/3 of the economic ladder...(of course leaving the middle class bearing the brunt with 44% of the deaths. This study also showed that three affluent communities in particular had a casualty rate in Veitnam well ABOVE the national average...those communities are Belmont, MASS...Chevy Chase, Maryland, and Great Neck, NY.
Much of the above was gleaned from the book "STOLEN VALOR" by BG Burkett. He served in Vietnam. His book exposes many myths about "Nam" and Vets...and the many fakes who claim to be Vietnam vets. Among those he's exposed...Frank Dux...of "Blood Sport" fame (the real guy...not the actor) a COMPLETE FAKE, Actor Brian Dennehey claimed to have been wounded in Nam...the closest he got to Nam was Okinawa, and DAN RATHER, whose Marine career didn't last through boot camp. Among other myths he's debunked...drug use...it was more prevelant among soldiers who did NOT go to Nam. Unemployment? Vietnam Vets have a higher rate of employment than their counter parts who did NOT serve...and have a higher socioeconomic standing now.
IT's TIME TO DROP THE MYTHS PEOPLE!
The belief that the rich avoided service while the poor did not IS A MYTH!
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DakotaRed
He was opposed to the war. Wish he would have just stated that when asked though.
Wishing is one thing, burning the flag in another land is another.
While in country, I met quite a few who were also opposed to it. Most of us were, at the time. Still many went in, performed their duty, often as medics and were actually quite heroic.
I've asked many times and never actually recived an answer yet. Since character didn't matter for 8 years, why does it matter now?
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Euphemism
Big Tex... no worries. You expressed your opinion... and were a lot more civil than many have been (myself admittedly included, on occasion).