14 kids dead and one teacher at Texas school shooting.

by jojorabbit 117 Replies latest social current

  • Simon
    Or go shoot up a grocery store. Or go shoot up a night club. Or go shoot into houses at random. Or go do some drive-by shootings. Or go shoot at a birthday party. Or . .

    All places more likely to have someone else who could shoot them.

    The aim should be to remove schools as the obvious soft target.

    I'd rather have half a dozen adults shot than 20 kids, and the evidence is that they rarely shoot that many because people can and do shot back.

    No infamy, no one remembers you, no incentive.

    But a person advocating for gun rights while the bodies are still warm is perfectly acceptable and reasonable?

    Again, it's not advocating for gun rights. It's being practical. You are simply not going to remove weapons from the US, so any solution that involves waving a magic wand to remove them is childish and unhelpful. You certainly don't get to be critical of people who are putting forward workable solutions and impugn their motives.

    Start with the problem and goal:

    • You cannot remove the guns from society, ao assume that "bad guys" will get access to them
    • You want to prevent massacres of school-children who are a soft target

    The only options are to protect them more, by making schools more secure and / or have someone there to make them less of a soft-target by letting them fire back.

    You are assuming that if someone can't attack the soft-target of a school that they will go attack someplace else. Which means you ignore WHY they go shoot up a school, which takes us to the media - why did we see this shit-stain's photo? Sports media don't show pitch invaders because it removes one of the incentives for people doing it. They shouldn't be allowed to be irresponsible ... but then does anyone believe they don't really want things like this? They rub their hands 'cause it will be a ton of clicks and views.

    Take it to an extreme: do people ever try to do mass shootings at police stations? If not, why not?

  • jojorabbit

    Shadow, its very reasonable. Because the left use it to attack gun rights. If the left can stand on the graves to virtue signal about how bad guns are, then we can talk about how its not the answer. But you leftists only want the double edge sword to cut one way, this is why people on your side of things not only want to limit or quell gun rights but free speech rights.

  • truth_b_known

    Some of it is likely them wanting to protect themselves, but another aspect is that the last few years must have surely make the police afraid to act and pull a trigger. It could end their life if they make a mistake.

    We need to go back to people having a personal responsibility for their own well being which involved not being a dick by doing something that could get you shot.

    I have been in law enforcement for nearly 30 years and I am ready to hang it up and walk away. Police officers in the U.S. are afraid to do their job for fear of being prosecuted by activist District Attorneys. I am not suggesting that is what happened in Uvalde, Texas. There are places where I live/work where officers are not allowed to go to in the performance of their duties because their police chief/sheriff is afraid their officers will be prosecuted if they have to use deadly force. As a result, criminals go apprehended.

    I am also tired of people in the U.S. and other places replacing their ancestors' deities with government. Whenever a tragedy like Uvalde happens there is a form of the Texas Two-Step - First, point fingers and blame and second, look to the government pass another law. It is as if laws are magical incantations that will generate a circle of protection.

    Advocating that only the state (police/military) have access to firearms gives government a monopoly on deadly force. Saying "Only police officers should have guns" is a logical fallacy. Police officers are only people. If you hire an assassin to murder someone for you, both you and the assassin are guilty of murder.

    If you call the police because an axe murderer is breaking through your front door to come kill you, and the police shoot and kill the axe murderer, you are just as responsible for the axe murderer's death as you would be if you pulled the trigger. To detach yourself from the axe murderer's death because the police officer you called to your house pulled the trigger is disingenuous at best. You certainly not on a higher moral ground.

    Police officers are just human beings. They are private citizens. Sir Robert Edmond Peel, founder of the first civilian police department in history (London Metropolitan Police Department), gave us the Nine Peelian Principles of Policing - #7

    • To maintain at all times a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and that the public are the police, the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    "That's your job!" is the absolute most amoral statement I have every heard.

  • jojorabbit

    That is how I see it bknown. At least the part of personal responsibility. Why should my rights be cut because someone abused theirs. Just a hot minute ago the left was screaming pigs in a blanket fryem like bacon, de-fund the police and a lot of other small minded nonsense. Now those chickens are coming home to roost in liberal cities and they are blaming every thing but their stupid policies. Another one was the let em out of jail on no bond or reduced bond ect. Why not let them commit more crimes while they are waiting to get slapped on the hand. What about AOC the brain dead bar tender who was shut down prisons. LOL what could possibly go wrong.

  • truth_b_known

    Suggesting that the cause to mass murder with the use of a firearm was caused by access to said firearm is a logical fallacy know as Post hoc ergo propter hoc - after this, therefore because of this.

    The Clinton Era Assault Weapons ban was in full effect when the Columbine incident took place.



    Even if an argument seems to make sense it cannot be valid unless the form is valid and that it does not exhibit one of the forms of logical fallacy such as Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc.

  • Simon

    Oh man, the police story keeps changing and it keeps getting worse and worse. Kids were calling 9/11 from inside the classroom while police loitered outside, not even going to get the key to get in...

    Fucking unbelievable levels of bumbling incompetence. I want to see some firings and pensions cancelled. This is unforgivable.

    Remember, when seconds count the police are only an hour and a half away. Pizza would have been delivered quicker!


    Police made the "wrong decision" by failing to storm a classroom in Robb Elementary School as a gunman killed 19 children inside, the chief Texas safety official has said.

    "If I thought it would help, I would apologise," Steven McCraw said during a heated press conference Friday.

    He confirmed a 40 minute gap from the police unit's arrival to when they entered the classroom.

    Pupils inside made multiple calls begging for police to come.

    The delay in response, now confirmed in a new timeline offered by authorities, has raised even more questions about why 18-year-old Salvador Ramos was inside the school for so long before he was killed - not by local officers, but by a tactical unit led by US border agents.

    The gunman crashed his car near the school at about 11:30 local time, Mr McCraw disclosed, and entered the school shortly after - but it was not until 12:51 that a tactical unit breached the door, entering and killing him.

    The delay happened in part because the commanding officer on scene believed the situation was no longer one involving an "active shooter", he said.

    The description is at odds with the disclosure that at least four emergency 911 calls were made from within the school - apparently from children barricaded inside the classroom where the gunman was firing - begging for police to come.

    Mr McCraw confirmed that as many as 19 police officers had gathered outside the classroom but they made no effort to get inside.

    They thought "no [more] kids were at risk" by then and "there was time" to get the classroom keys from the school janitor.

    After the gunman was shot dead, police found as many as 1,657 rounds of ammunition in his possession.

    They later ascertained he had forewarned of some of his actions in private messages to a Facebook friend.

  • truth_b_known
    The gunman crashed his car near the school at about 11:30 local time, Mr McCraw disclosed, and entered the school shortly after - but it was not until 12:51 that a tactical unit breached the door, entering and killing him.

    I work as a Texas Peace Officer. I have been to 2 different active shooter schools and I am SWAT certified. Here is what is taught to EVERY officer -

    1. An active shooter incident is not a SWAT incident.
    2. During an active shooter incident all officers are to -

    A. Get to the shooter's location as quickly as possible

    B. Immediately neutralize the threat

    C. Begin looking for secondary/unknown threats

    or in simplified terms - Get in there as quickly as possible and do the work that need doing!

    This isn't Ulvade PD's fault, but they failed to do their job.

  • Simon

    I can imagine as a basic principle that if you are drawing the gunmans attention and fire, that's less time and shots being spent on victims.

    I think the school also bears some responsibility. They didn't lock the doors as they should.

    So between them, I think the school and police will likely be paying some compensation for their failures.

  • MeanMrMustard
    The gunman crashed his car near the school at about 11:30 local time

    Wait. Something still doesn't add up - why did he crash his car? If I am driving to a school to shoot it up, I'm not running my car off the road. I'm pulling into the parking lot, getting ready, and then going in.

    Did I miss something?

  • road to nowhere
    road to nowhere

    Several points: ( from news so can snd will chsnge)

    Perp was by accounts a tranny ( mental health)

    US marshalls were there actively involved

    Small town cops are usually less trained and paid

    There had been 48 or lock downs due to fugitive illegal immigrants being sought. ( cry wolf?)

    Teachers were forbidden to carry

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