Cite one scripture in the N.T. that chargers Christians to be witnesses of / for Jehovah.....Not one.using K.I ./ WTB&TS

by smiddy3 86 Replies latest jw friends

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Excellent explanation Earnest, of the eminently reasonable case for the divine name in the early NT.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Here is an interesting article that sheds light on the question: Was the name Jehovah removed from the New Testament and does it matter?

    https://carm.org/was-jehovahs-name-removed-from-the-new-testament-does-it-matter

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Hi Slim

    Here are 2 versions of John 17:36

    And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

    Darby Bible Translation
    And I have made known to them thy name, and will make it known; that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them and I in them.

    What do you believe making Gods name known means in context here?

    How do you think Jesus made Gods name known to his disciples?



  • Earnest
    Earnest

    Vanderhoven7 : Here is an interesting article that sheds light on the question: Was the name Jehovah removed from the New Testament and does it matter?

    The article to which you refer goes on to refer to a further eight articles. One of these addresses the argument that first century LXX papyri contain the tetragrammaton. The footnotes indicate the article is primarily based on a book written by Larry Hurtado in 2006 on 'The Earliest Christian Artefacts'. It would seem to be unaware that Professor Hurtado wrote on the subject five months ago. He said :

    First, it is worth noting that, to judge from ancient manuscripts of the early Roman period, the treatment of the name of God, the “tetragrammaton” (YHWH), in the Greek translation of the OT was typically to write it in Hebrew characters, not to write a translation or substitute for the name. However, when reading the Greek OT it appears that the dominant practice was to substitute the Greek term kyrios for YHWH. Our manuscripts of the Septuagint (LXX) routinely have kyrios where the Hebrew has YHWH, but that is a scribal practice that seems to have developed sometime in the second century or so.

    If you can produce any evidence of first century Greek manuscripts that replace the tetragrammaton with kurios ('Lord') now is the time to do it.

  • LV101
    LV101
    Earnest - that makes sense re/the pictures/links posted but I'm confused w/all the scriptures quoted re/witnesses of Jesus. Were these scriptures edited from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton?
  • Earnest
    Earnest

    LV101, there are four texts I could identify referring to witnesses of Jesus. They are :

    Acts 1:8 He [Jesus] said to them ...But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.

    Acts 13:30,31 But God raised him up from the dead, and for many days he became visible to those who had gone with him from Galʹi·lee up to Jerusalem. These are now his witnesses to the people.

    Acts 22:14,15 He [Ananias] said [to Saul]: ‘The God of our forefathers has chosen you to come to know his will and to see the righteous one and to hear the voice of his mouth, because you are to be a witness for him to all men of the things you have seen and heard.

    Acts 22:19,20 And I [Paul] said: ‘Lord, they themselves well know that I used to imprison and flog in one synagogue after another those believing in you; and when the blood of Stephen your witness was being spilled, I was standing by and approving and guarding the outer garments of those doing away with him.’

    There is no confusion who these scriptures are referring to, and none of them are quoting from the OT. So there is no doubt they were not edited from the Hebrew tetragrammaton.

    Confusion lies in texts which now read 'Lord' but originally read YHWH such as Matthew 22:44, Mark 12:36, Luke 20:42, and Acts 2:34 which all quote from Psalm 110:1 ('YHWH declared to my Lord...') but now read "The Lord said to my Lord...".

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    It’s worth noting that Acts 2:32 says Christians are witnesses to the fact of what God has done in resurrecting Jesus. So are Christians Jehovah’s Witnesses in that verse? Plus there is no opposition between being witnesses of Jesus or Jehovah. The NT presents Jesus as acting in Jehovah’s behalf and as the means that Jehovah provides salvation. To be a witness of Jesus is to be a witness to the fact that Jehovah saves. So be be a witness of Jesus is to be a witness to Jehovah. Jesus himself is described as “the faithful witesss” in Rev 1:5.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    @Slim

    I note that you see no opposition between witnessing to or for Jesus and witnessing to or for Jehovah. Fine, but how about the converse?

    Does witnessing to or for Jehovah mean one is witnessing to Jesus?

    Does calling on Jehovah mean one is calling on Jesus as all first century Christians did?

    God set the priority on Jesus name for good reason. By adding to the word of God the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses obliterates the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

  • LV101
    LV101

    Earnest - thank you for taking the time to 'splain and type out scriptures. Obviously, one can't be a 'quick' study on this and, yes, confusion. I recall (elementary school age) from the Baptist Church "LORD" was referring to GOD and "Lord," was Jesus (I think in the NT) and when it's "Lord" here you're referring to YHWH but I get it.

    Vander -- first century Christians didn't call on "Lord," YHWH, Jehovah, in Jesus name -- just strictly addressed Jesus? Thx

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat
    Does calling on Jehovah mean one is calling on Jesus as all first century Christians did?

    No because it’s not a symmetrical relationship. Jehovah sent Jesus as saviour of the world. So a witness of Jesus is witness to what Jehovah has done to save mankind. The same is not true in reverse. Jesus did not send Jehovah to save the world. Jehovah’s name doesn’t mean “Jesus Saves”. Jehovah didn’t perform miracles because Jesus gave him the power. People are not said to bow down and worship Jehovah “to the glory of the Son”. So witnessing to Jesus means witnessing to what Jehovah has done, not the reverse.

    I would highly recommend James McGrath on this topic.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-True-God-Christian-Monotheism/dp/0252078799/

    The whole focus of the NT is on God and what he has done to save mankind by means of Jesus.


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