Cite one scripture in the N.T. that chargers Christians to be witnesses of / for Jehovah.....Not one.using K.I ./ WTB&TS

by smiddy3 94 Replies latest jw friends

  • johnamos
    johnamos

    caria,

    I am suggesting in general that anyone/everyone that claims to be an Christian is identifying themselves as believers/followers of Jesus, this would include JW's. The fact that no one you know or people in general don't think JW's are 'Christians' in the traditional sense doesn't change the fact that JW's do regard themselves as Christians and they are so, in as much as any other so-called Christian religion claim to be.

    As for what you say about JW's relaying on the GB for salvation, that is true but that doesn't nullify their belief in Jesus. JW's are in the same position today as the Jews were when Jesus said: 7 You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said:+ 8 ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. 9 It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’

  • carla
    carla

    Muslims believe that Jesus was a real person that lived, does that make them 'Christians'?

    jw's are not Christian in any sense of the word.Yes, they give lip service every now an again. Simply using the word 'Jesus' at the end of prayer does not make one Christ like.

    Many people today like to 'identify' themselves as one thing or another. There is even a person who believes she is a cat and wants to be identified as such, doesn't make it so.

    I live with a jw, while he is a very good man and helps many, it is certainly not due to being a jw! it is from his non jw upbringing, a leftover if you will, that he helps non jw family and friends. Funny, it drives him crazy on one hand that non jw's are so 'sinful' yet he helps them. Must be hard to live judging others all the time yet feeling compelled due to his Christian upbringing that he can't help himself. His whole family is like that, all non jw, they help everybody. Be it sinful, gay, black, white, purple or polk-a-dot, they are just wired that way. In fact, if the local cong knew just how much he helped us sinful people he would probably be df'd or at the very least have his 'privileges' taken away. Always nice to have a nuclear option in my back pocket though I have never used it and wouldn't because he needs to see the cult for what it is on his own to truly let go of this ungodly disgusting 'religion'.

    I can't think of a more hypocritical organization than the jw's! They always ask what they themselves are not willing to do themselves. One prime example is at the door, they ask you to examine your religion while they will run for the hills if you ask them the same of their own so called 'religion'.

    jw's shouldn't even be used in the same sentence as Jewish folk.

  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    johnamos:

    This website would be of great value for you.

    https://www.jwfacts.com/

    Atlantis!
  • johnamos
    johnamos

    quote - Muslims believe that Jesus was a real person that lived, does that make them 'Christians' - end quote

    You have it backwards, believing that Jesus was a real person does not make you a Christian, but identifying yourself as an Christian is saying that you believe/follow Jesus.

    JW's/WTS state that they are Christian:

    https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-christians/

    Anyway, that is all I will say about this. That's not what this thread is about but I will end by agreeing with you 100% on what you said here:

    quote - One prime example is at the door, they ask you to examine your religion while they will run for the hills if you ask them the same of their own so called 'religion'. - end quote


  • johnamos
    johnamos

    Atlantis,

    Why would you think that?

  • carla
    carla

    johnamos, I see you as a jw mindset, perhaps if you are willing to really examine your own beliefs as jw's ask the doors to do, you will see things differently.

    Examine, then examine again and then keep searching and keep an open mind. If you are on Simons's board you are already in peril as a diehard jw and would be subject to df-ing just for being here. Sad isn't it? that your entire world could change in an instant just for looking at a website?

  • carla
    carla

    Yes! jwfacts.com is an excellent resource! as is Atlantis as always. Imagine that? an ex jw has to download secret documents to a so called 'Christian' cult?! how bizarre. At least that's what my Christian and non Christian friends think of the whole thing.

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    The fall Guy ,Thanks for taking the time and trouble for compiling that list.

    LV101,That would be about right.

    blondie ,Acts 11:26 just seems to go right over the head of JW`s they not understanding what "divine providence" means.

    johnamos ,The Jw`s used the Greek text of Westcott & Hort a literal word for word translation of the Greek into English that does not contain the name or word jehovah either with the Hebrew Tetragrammaton or a Greek four letter equivalent in there interlinear translation known as KI.

    blondie,neither Jesus,the Apostles ,nor any of his Disciples are recorded as using the name Jehovah as per the KI,yet in the side column JW`s insert that name thereby adding to the word .

    Your inferring they must have used Gods personal name because they quoted an OT scripture is just interpretation on your part and others who make the same claim .

    The facts are their is no written record of any of them ever doing so .

    We have the words of Jesus written down , as we do with the Apostles and the Disciples and not one of them is recorded as uttering the personal name of God as Jehovah .

  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    johnamos:

    Why would you think that?

    ---------------------------------

    Why wouldn't I think that, based on the information you have provided? JWFacts could enlighten you on some very important facts.

    Remember, the Jesus Christ of Jehovah's Witnesses and the Jesus Christ Christians believe in are not the same!

    The Jesus Christ Christians believe in had a bodily resurrection.

    The Jesus Christ Jehovah's Witnesses believe in, had His body dissolved into gases. So how can JW's claim to be Christian when they deny Christ?

    Time and time again the governing body of the Watchtower Society, attempt to sit on the throne of Christ and bring divine glory to themselves. (That is if their not too drunk from all the liquor they buy, with hard earned contributions. )

    Atlantis!

  • Atlantis
    Atlantis

    johnamos:



    Here is the Jesus Christ Jehovah's Witnesses believe in! These are the names and titles the governing body claim for themselves.

    "Mighty God" "Everlasting Father"
    .... Soon follows the power which will, under him as our head, constitute the whole body of Christ the "Mighty God" (el- powerful one) to rule and bless the nations-and the body with the head, shall share in the work of restoring the life lost in Adam, and therefore be members of that company which as a whole will be the Everlasting Father to the restored race. (Watch Tower Reprints, October/November, 188 1,298).

    "Gods". Our high calling is so great, so much above the comprehension of men ... not any longer human, but "partakers of the divine nature." ... We are divine beings-hence all such are Gods .... Thus we have a family of God, Jehovah being our father .... When Jesus said he was a son of God ... he was making himself to be also a God, or of the God family. ... Now we appear like men, and all die naturally like men, but in the resurrection we will rise in our true character as Gods. (Watch Tower Reprints,December, 188 1,301).

    "Immanuel" "complete Christ".Ques. Jesus has not yet been called Immanuel (God with us) yet, has he? Does not this name apply to the complete Christ-head and body-when exalted and present with the world? Ans. We think that it is similar to the title-"The Everlasting Father." ... We are members of the body of that "Everlasting Father" or life giver to the world. So also with the title Immanuel. (Watch Tower Reprints, July 1882, 377).

    "Great prophet" "Everlasting Father" "Lifegiver".As the body of the great Prophet, Priest and King, the church will be part of the Everlasting Father or Lifegiver to the world.-Isa. 9:6. (Tabernacle Shadows of the Better Sacrifices (1899), 102).

    "completed Christ" "Lord" "Agelasting Father".In brief, this completed Christ, having died and lived again, becomes Lord- Rom 14:9; or Agelasting Father of the human family restored, by the "better sacrifice,"-Heb.9:23, to the original condition of sons. (Watch Tower Reprints, January/February, 1882,3 16).

    "God manifest in the flesh".Very shortly now, this mystery of God, this company of divinely-begotten sons, will be FINISHED completed: "The church of the first born," of which Jesus is the head, will soon cease to be, God manifest in the flesh. The entire company shall be glorified together, and "shall shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." (Matt. 13: 43.) They shall arise in power and strength to bless all the families of the earth. (Watch Tower Reprints, July 1882,369).

    "the Christ ... in the flesh".So, then, Christ is manifest in your mortal body. (2 Cor 4: 11) When the world sees you it sees a member of the Christ, not in glory. But in the flesh. ... (Watch Tower Reprints, March 1883,455).

    "The Christ" "The Christ of God" "The Messiah".To be thus part of "The Seed," "The Christ," we must see to it that we comply with the conditions [suffer death with Him if we would be found in Him] thus making our calling and election sure.(Watch Tower Reprints, September 1880, 134).

    Our oneness with Jesus as members of the Christ-anointed body-maybe clearly illustrated by the figure of a pyramid: ... How beautifully this illustrates our position as members of "The Seed," "The Christ." (Watch Tower Reprints, September 1880, 135).

    The Christ of God is Jesus and the redeemed Church (1 Cor. 12: 12. ..). (Watch Tower Reprints, May 1885,75 1).This Gospel age is the time in which the Messiah is prepared. The Head of the Messiah, therefore, very properly, is first; and following him the Apostles and all down through the age the various members of the body. This age will end when the full number of the "elect" shall have been found and tested. Then the body will have been completed. When The Messiah is complete, The Christ will be complete. (Watch Tower Reprints, June 15, 19 1 1,484 1).

    "Deliverer" "Servant of the Covenant"."There shall come out of Zion [the spiritual church] the Deliverer [this great high priest, the Servant of the Covenant-Jesus, the Head, and the little flock, his body], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob." (Tabernacle Shadows, 33-34). (brackets in original].

    "great Deliverer Class".This great Deliverer Class has been in process first of development then of birth throughout this gospel age. The Head was born more than eighteen centuries ago; and now the body is being brought to the birth in the first resurrection.(Watch Tower, October 1, 1920,292).

    "The Servant of Jehovah (God)" "Servant" "The Christ".Seeing then that The Servant of Jehovah is The Christ, and that The Christ is composed of Jesus and the faithful members of his body, we find it proper to apply the term "Servant" to Jesus Christ alone or to Jesus Christ and the members of his body collectively as one; and sometimes it is applied only to the members of the body yet on earth .... The Christ collectively is The Servant of Jehovah God, and the body members are a part of that Servant; they are also the servants of Christ himself, who is their Head. (Watch Tower, February 15, 1927,53).

    "great Shepherd".And other Scriptures show us that all of the flock thus faithful, in following the Shepherd even "unto death," are counted as members of the body of the Shepherd. Thus the entire Gospel age has been the period of suffering with Christ, of dying daily, of laying down our lives for the brethren; and not until this sacrifice is complete in the close of this age will the New Covenant by thrown open in the largest sense of the word to the world of mankind in general, and the great Shepherd be complete-Head and body. (Watch Tower Reprints, February 15, 1899,2442).

    "one great Messiah" "great Messiah" "Messiah".Assuredly this is the thought then, that from God's standpoint there is the one great Messiah, the elect Head and the elect members of his body. These, as one loaf, constitute from God's standpoint the bread of everlasting life for the world.,.. (Watch Tower Reprints, October 15, 1906, 3880).Messiah's kingdom once established, Jesus and his glorified church constituting the great Messiah, shall minister the blessings to the people they have so long desired and hoped for and prayed might come. (Rutherford, Millions Now Living Will Never Die [1920], 88)....

    The Messiah-Jesus the head and the church his body. (Watch Tower,February 15,1920,54).

    "Messiah" "Mediator".Bear in mind that our covenant, the original one [with Abraham], had no mediator..,.A mediator is necessary, and the Messiah, Head and members, will be the Mediator in whose hands of control the entire world will be placed during the Millennium, so that even the willing and obedient will not be directly introduced to the Father until the end of that Mediatorial reign. (Watch Tower Reprints, January 1, 1909,43 10).

    "Mediator of the New Covenant" "Great Mediator" "The Christ".From the time of Jesus down, the Mediator of the New Covenant has been in process of selection, and the "better sacrifices," as the basis for the New Covenant have been in process of offering. During this Gospel age Jesus has not exercised his office as Mediator for the world; and the world has no relationship with God, but still lies in the wicked one.


    The Mediator himself has been in the process of development .... No mediating can be done until the Mediator of "many members" has qualified for the office. His qualification consists of his sacrificing, according to his covenant of sacrifice.
    The Christ, Head and body, are, therefore, the Mediator for the world in a prospective sense-in the same sense as Jesus, the Babe, could be spoken of as the Savior and the King.

    He is only now becoming the King and has yet saved only a few of his people .... The Great Mediator between God and man-The Christ of glory-will fill his mediatorial office for a thousand years and complete it only by the end of that time, when he will deliver over to the Father, fully reconciled, all who can be brought into harmony with the divine arrangement. (Watch Tower Reprints, July 15, 1916,5928).

    "saviours". [Comment on Revelation 5: 101 And to open the seals thereof.-Disclose the wonderful method by which the Father will develop the saviors of the world.-Obad. 21 (The Finished Mystery, [1917], 101).The saints who are to be associated with Jesus during his reign are likewise called "saviours." (Obadiah 21) (Watch Tower, December 15, 1927,38 1).

    "Prophet like unto Moses".The Prophet like unto Moses, the great Law-giver, the great King, the great Mediator, will be the foretold "seed of Abraham," in whom all the families of the earth shall be blessed .... And this seed of Abraham, as we have already seen, as the Apostle has most clearly set forth, consists of our Lord Jesus, as the Head, the chief, and all of his faithful elect church as members-as his body .... (Watch Tower Reprints, August 15, 1901,2859).

    It is significant that in the Watch Tower Publications Index (1930-1985) under the "CONGREGATION OF GOD listing, the reader is referred to almost two dozen other entries covering the subject, but not one of the above designations or names appears.

    See: The Four Presidents Of The Watch Tower Society/Edmond C. Gruss.

    Atlantis!

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