Did Jesus really die on a cross?

by macys 43 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  WireRider

  Everyone needs to remember that the JW/WT high jacked the Catholic Bible only about 150 years ago and have been trying to change it ever since. The NWT is not the Bible. Teaching hate against Catholics, but use their Bible. Forbid members from ever witnessing their services or hearing truth. Russell/JW/WT are followers of Arius. He was kicked out of the "Bible committee" of Catholic Bishops (Council of Nicaea) that assembled the New Testament as we know it. - Arius ideas and works were ordered to be completely burned and he was exiled. NONE of his teaching were allowed into the Bible. The JW/WT teaches from the Catholic Bible ... they hate.

  Cross/pole doesn't really matter. Event did. What I always remember was that Jesus was said to have been ordered to carry his own cross to the hill - marched through town. Fact is that it would have been impossible, in his condition, to carry a full cross. What he was carrying, marched through town, was the cross-beam to form the cross. The humiliation was to carry his own cross beam to be hung on.
• 

  TTWSYF

  Typical watchtower twisting of the facts. Same as they have always been. I forget which booklet that I read it in, but something along the lines of..

  Christ died on a stake because Stauros means a stake or pole in classical Greek.

  The issue is that the NT is not written in classical Greek Classical. Classical Greek was not spoken for several hundred years before Christ.

  The NT was written in Koine Greek and in that dialect, Stauros means both a pole or an intersecting poles [one a top the other] like a cross.

  Also, Christianity was spread orally for centuries before the scriptures were confirmed. Are you going to believe that everyone telling of the Lords crucifixion was in error?

  Just asking
• 

  slimboyfat

  Don't know if this new book on the topic has been mentioned yet?

  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cross-Before-Constantine-Christian-Symbol/dp/1451490305/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1445984794&sr=8-1&keywords=cross+before+constantine
  
• 

  Rattigan350

  "It says nails plural and the T shaped cross was often used back then."

  It was a tree trunk pole with both arms and hands above his head. A nail in each hand thus plural for 2 nails for 2 hands. Cross beams were not used especially if there were others also.

  I was there. I have pictures on my iphone alpha 0.00003 version
• 

  opusdei1972

  Most of the church fathers of the first three centuries agree that Jesus died on a T-shaped cross. Of course, some centuries before Christ, in times of Homer, the greek word stauros, used in the New Testament, mainly meant "a simple pole". However, it improved its meaning to include a T-shape and a X-shape form. The Watchtower Society wants to hide this fact, and only quotes the portions of the dictionaries when they make reference to the ancient meaning of the word.....And of course, it is possible that Jesus died on a simple pole, because the romans used this simple form when there were not sufficient stakes. But no one knows if that was the case, so we have no argument to distrust the tradition. Nevertheless, the Watchtower insists dishonestly that Jesus did not die on a cross, as if they were there before Jesus.
  
• 

  WireRider

  Silly debate. It doesn't really matter. It misses the point. Jesus was put to death at a pivotal point. Does it really matter at all what shape the wood thing was?

  There is no proof either way. Hand-me-down stories for 300 yrs and all the translations do not matter.

  I hear a lot about what was historically typical of the times. Yes, but that refers to common thieves and criminals and every day executions. They made an extra effort to make a point of displaying Jesus sentence of death. I would think they would have gone all out for the extra cross. Of course there where eye witnesses that passed down for 2000 years of the cross. Not some knuckle head from from 100 yrs ago who claim 2000 years where wrong based on a bad translation. Russell did not even know Hebrew, Latin, or Greek.

  My biggest religious conundrum .... was it boxers or briefs. Does it matter?
• 

  punkofnice

  My first question would be, did Jesus actually exist?
• 

  TTWSYF

  Punkofnice- Did Jesus actually exist?

  There were a boat load of people who were tortured to death for a while after Jesus died. If it were not true, there would be no Christianity 2000 years later would there?

  Just asking
• 

  punkofnice

  TTWSYF - Well, this is a good question. I am unsure if the Jesus as described in the bible actually existed or if those that were killed in his name were following a legend rather than a reality.....if you see what I mean.

  The Jesus of the bible didn't leave any writings behind. There isn't any reliable evidence outside of the bible that really mentions him.

  This is why I ask. Having been fed lies by the watchtower, I won't get fooled again.
• 

  TTWSYF

  Punk- Fair enough, Jesus;s legend was promoted orally for many years before being put to the parchment. Many comparisons to other demigods were a common argument against the legitimacy of his existence. That said, once the blade touches YOUR skin, you would NOT hold onto any legend. At least I don;t think that I would.

  just saying