I conclude evolution is guided

by KateWild 532 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Viviane

  I'm not back, dear. I just noticed someone brought my name up :)

  How have you been?
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  DJS

  Viv!!!

  Be back, please! I'm super, doing my best to occasionally annoy the good people on this site while walking Simon's line to keep from getting booted! Hope you are well. The site misses you. I miss you.
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  Viviane

  Sorry boopie, I don't think it would be too healthy for me or the forum to start posting regularly again. If you thought I with short with people I thought were foolish before, well....yeah.
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  Coded Logic

  If you thought I with (sic) short with people I thought were foolish before, well....

  
  

  I've learned not to argue with the Viv. I had my ass handed to me way too many times!
  
  
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  konceptual99

  Nice to hear from you Viv and thanks for the links. It's worth an occasional reminder that this type of conversation is not a new thing...
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  KateWild

  Cofty and K99 Thanks for the link. I read it and checked some references and this is what I found.......

  http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6559/abs/378767a0.html

  I don’t find this source credible. The website is called nature publishing group. Is this group run by chemists or other people who don’t have scientific credentials?

  Cofty, I asked you to go back and reread the paper and quote directly from the paper where he stated he solved the puzzle but you didn’t do that. Why not?

  So I went to every cited Soai reference and this is what I found

  Abstract

  Optically active 1-(3-pyridyl)alkanols, chiral self-catalysts, produced themselves of the same configuration in the enantioselective addition of dialkylzinc reagents to pyridine-3-carbaldehyde.

  http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/1990/C3/c39900000982#!divAbstract

  The PDF was almost £40 so I didn’t read it.

  Abstract

  Chiral diols, bis[2-(1-hydroxyalkyl)phenyl]ethers, with very high e.e.'s are synthesized by catalytic enantioselective alkylation of bis(2-formylphenyl)ether. Zinc alkoxides of chiral diols were found to work as asymmetric autocatalysts in the reaction between bis(2-formylphenyl)ether and dialkylzincs.

  http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S095741660086228X

  PDF almost £40

  Abstract

  Isopropylzinc alkoxide of 1-ferrocenyl-2-methylpropan-1-ol was found to be a catalytic chirally self-replicating molecule which produces itself with the same configuration from ferrocenyl aldehyde and diisopropylzinc with 35–39% e.e. in good yields.

  http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/095741669500047S

  Note: In lieu of an abstract, this is the article's first page.

  The first page is just a list of contents

  http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/cr00013a004

  So I went to download the PDF and it stated that I do not have the credentials

  Note: In lieu of an abstract, this is the article's first page.

  This first page was an interesting read, nowhere did Soai state it was a puzzle or a mystery. It was very interesting though that he used the term design when describing a molecule. I am not reading anything into it as I feel the whole page is impartial. Just think it’s interesting.

  “On the other hand from the standpoint of the design of chiral catalyst a chiral alcohol with a sterically bulky secondary substituent isopropyl shows higher asymmetric induction……..”

  When you read the whole page in context, I would be interested to know if you do, it’s clear he is not suggesting there is a designer for the molecule, he is not talking about God or Atheism. He is talking about specific research and it’s application. So I sincerely don’t want to mislead any believers into thinking Soai believes in God or a creator.

  http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00104a057

  Japanese religions are very interesting . I got a little distracted and had a read. Sorry to go off topic.

  http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e629.html

  Bact to topic. All of these are abstracts from different papers doing different research to develop different products. I can’t find anything where Soai states the following

  THE homochirality of natural amino acids and sugars remains a puzzle for theories of the chemical origin of life1–18. In 1953 Frank7 proposed a reaction scheme by which a combination of autocatalysis and inhibition in a system of replicating chiral molecules can allow small random fluctuations in an initially racemic mixture to tip the balance to yield almost exclusively one enantiomer. Here we show experimentally that autocatalysis in a chemical reaction can indeed enhance a small initial enantiomeric excess of a chiral molecule. When a 5-pyrimidyl alkanol with a small (2%) enantiomeric excess is treated with diisopropylzinc and pyrimidine-5-car-boxaldehyde, it undergoes an autocatalytic reaction to generate more of the alkanol. Because the reaction involves a chiral catalyst generated from the initial alkanol, and because the catalytic step is enantioselective, the enantiomeric excess of the product is enhanced. This process provides a mechanism by which a small initial imbalance in chirality can become overwhelming.

  That’s what the website states there is no proof Soai wrote it in any of his research yet. I have tried to find the links Cofty sent me with the actual paper on JWN but neither of us started the thread, so I am having problems finding that specific paper. I also tried to google it and I mustn’t be very good at finding stuff because I can’t find this 1995 paper that I have read multiple times.

  What is CAS reference linking? Cofty is it Your way of seeking the best possible argument against your position, or confirming your position / bias? Semantics.

  Cofty, I am going to respond to your challenge. I have a response that’s not complete in writing. But you have not responded to my challenge properly have you?

  I asked you to go back and reread the paper and quote directly from the paper where he stated he solved the puzzle or mystery but you didn’t actually do that did you?

  So I am requesting respectfully that you do this for me please. I am happy for you to prove me wrong. I respect Soai more than Dawkins, so knowing what respected chemists believe may influence my thinking and I could change my opinions with new facts I learn.
  
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  KateWild

  http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v378/n6559/abs/378767a0.html

  I also find is suspicious that this link doesn't work, but all my links referenced from this page work. I am not suggesting anything by it because I don't understand how links work or how Simon does stuff related to links. Simon, could you shed some light?
  
  
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  Landy

  I don’t find this source credible. The website is called nature publishing group. Is this group run by chemists or other people who don’t have scientific credentials?

  As oppose to your credentials......?
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  Viviane

  I'm only mildly surprised that no one has mentioned that on the first page of this thread, the OP, a person with zero training in chemistry, much less organic chemistry, admitted that they are using their own made-up, not actual definitions for things.
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  Viviane

  As oppose to your credentials......?

  What's the square root of -1?