I conclude evolution is guided

by KateWild 532 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  KateWild

  Your qualifications are way above mine so I'd love to hear more about the specifics of what you have researched and how that supports the existence of a deity. - K99`

  K99, I am not really convinced that you're interested in my conclusions. But here goes anyway.`

  In nature amino acids formed to then form DNA. These amino acids contain homochiral molecules, that are also called enantiomers. These enantiomers exist as mirror images e.g,

  
  
  But in nature when amino acids and DNA are formed autocatalysis guides the formation of only the left handed molecule and always the left handed molecule. In the lab when synthesising this specific molecule a racemic mixture is produced unless the chemist produces the conditions for autocatalysis to occur. A racemic mixture is a 50/50 solution of both enantiomers.

  In chemical reactions catalysts are used to guide or speed up the reaction. Autocatalysis means that the reaction is being guided automatically.

  I draw the conclusion that a Creator could be responsible for guiding the process, others may feel this is evidence of evolution without external guidance.

  What do you think?
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  konceptual99

  No, you're right Kate, I'm not interested. I've only spent the vast majority of my life embedded in a cult that has reinforced a dogmatic view of the world, discouraged knowledge and education and now that I have mentally freed myself from these shackles all I am interested in doing is remaining comfortable in my ignorance.

  You are infuriating sometimes

  Anyway....

  As I said, I have no qualifications associated with chemistry so I can't claim any special insight into the subject. I do know that what I have looked at over the past few years has led me to conclude that overall there is nothing to support the idea of a proactive deity at the helm of what we see around us. Having said that I also know that there are some things that some very bright people do consider not to be easily explained away by purely naturalistic mechanisms. I am interested in understanding the arguments for and against the differing conclusions.

  If I understand what you have written correctly then in nature only the L/H molecule is produced by autocatalysis. How does the R/H molecule get formed then? What's the catalyst?
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  The Rebel

  Kate your point of view is always valued to me. Why? Because you have in your post history revealed everything's about yourself, and your qualifications, and you are always sincere. If such self expression at times is wrong, then I would be happy to be a fool.

  Anyway my point is we come on the board and we collect the material together, spending painstaking hours, even months reaching our conclusion, that doesn't make our point of view correct, but with the helpful co-operation of positive comments we can challenge our thinking, and humbly correct our viewpoint if wrong. As for your O.P " I conclude evolution is guided" the comments were beyond me, so I must answer. Who knows? Certainly not me? But I think the O.P will educate me with the answers. Thanks for that.
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  LoveUniHateExams

  I draw the conclusion that a Creator could be responsible for guiding the process, others may feel this is evidence of evolution without external guidance.

  What do you think? - first, I am as sure as it is possible to be that evolution happened. I don't know whether God guided this process or not.

  Why? Well, because I don't know about the existence of God. There are no data - repeat, no data - for God's existence. There are data for my existence - fingerprints, dental records, birth certificate, passport photo, NI number, etc - but none for God.

  You are, of course, free to draw your conclusion.

  I know you'll probably not like this question but I feel I should ask it - what class BSc did you get? First? Upper Second Class? Just scraped a Third? etc ...
  
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  bohm

  Hi Kate,

  I am not sure I understand the exact argument you are spelling out. I think we agree that nature only use left-handed amino acids for good reasons -- if an organism produces a mixture of left-and-right handed amino acids the right-handed variants would not be able to function with the left handed ones and at best they would be useless (but expensive) to produce and most likely (as I understand it) they would gunk up the inner workings of the cell due to their interaction with the left-handed counterparts. This is true regardless if evolution created life or if God did.

  My point is that if we naively imagine different cells where one cell produce 100% left-handed molecules, another produce 90% left handed and so on then the cells that produced predominantly left-handed amino acids would have a benefit over the others and, accordingly, evolution would select for them. In other words this seems like a straight-forward problem to explain with natural selection.

  For this to be a real challenge for evolution, I suppose one would have to argue that machinery that only produced molecules of one particular symmetry could not have evolved for some specific reason; but I haven't seen such an argument.

  If I am missing something, can you spell out exactly what your argument is?
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  KateWild

  No, you're right Kate, I'm not interested. I've only spent the vast majority of my life embedded in a cult that has reinforced a dogmatic view of the world, discouraged knowledge and education and now that I have mentally freed myself from these shackles all I am interested in doing is remaining comfortable in my ignorance.
  You are infuriating sometimes-K99

  Lol I am sorry for making wrong assumptions. You are genuine. I see that xx.

  If I understand what you have written correctly then in nature only the L/H molecule is produced by autocatalysis. How does the R/H molecule get formed then? What's the catalyst? - K99

  Your question is very good, and clearly highlights how bad I am at explaining things at a layman's level, but it's good I can improve my skills.`

  Enantiomers are stereo isomers that exist as molecules in chemicals and in nature. All matter is made up of chemical elements and molecules. All living things in nature have only the left handed molecule, all inanimate things have a racemic mixture. So the right handed molecule exists as part of the object just as much as the left handed molecule. But in the formation of amino acids only the left handed molecule is formed.

  Normally to speed up or guide a reaction a chemical is used to do this that does not get used up in the chemical reaction, but in the case of autocatalysis the conditions produce the formation of only left handed molecules.There is no chemical that acts as a catalyst.

  So what is your conclusion?
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  LoveUniHateExams

  Ok, Kate, let's go with your 'evolution is guided' hypothesis.

  Guided for what purpose? What's the big idea?
  
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  KateWild

  As for your O.P " I conclude evolution is guided" the comments were beyond me, so I must answer. Who knows? Certainly not me? But I think the O.P will educate me with the answers. Thanks for that. - Rebel

  Lol very good answer thank you
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  KateWild

  I know you'll probably not like this question but I feel I should ask it - what class BSc did you get? First? Upper Second Class? Just scraped a Third? etc ...

  I studied my BSc at university for two years and did a sandwich placement. Then I got a career without completing my dissertation in my final year. I think I am qualified as having an HND or level 2 BSc degree. They are both equivalent. I was on target for getting a 2.1 not a First by any means. It was a means to an end, and I got a job.
  

  What do you think? - first, I am as sure as it is possible to be that evolution happened. I don't know whether God guided this process or not.
  Why? Well, because I don't know about the existence of God. There are no data - repeat, no data - for God's existence. There are data for my existence - fingerprints, dental records, birth certificate, passport photo, NI number, etc - but none for God. - LUHE

  You make a good conclusion. You have a good point.
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  notsurewheretogo

  Autocatalysis means that the reaction is being guided automatically.

  No it doesn't...why do you suggest that?

  Have a read of this:

  http://thediagonal.com/2013/01/02/evolution-and-autocatalysis/