Does anyone know of this guy, or agree with his statements on racial differences in IQ?

by Sugar Shane 104 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cofty

  Sugar - I'm confused about what your point is.

  Are you denying the scientific conclusion that intelligence is strongly heritable?

  There is still some debate about whether the genetic factor affecting variation in intelligence is nearer to 50% or 70% but there is no serious dispute that variation in intelligence is significantly genetic.

  Of course it goes without saying that a person with a genetic gift for high intelligence won't flourish without a suitable environment - 'nature via nurture' as Matt Ridley expresses it.

  Just as an individual with the combination of genes for higher than average height won't achieve that potential without proper nutrition. On the other hand no amount of protein will cause somebody with the genes for less than average height to grow to 6' 4".

  IQ tests are not perfect but they are very good, and if you research the literature you will find that scientists go out their way to compensate for social factors when measuring groups. The commonly high IQ of Asian kids is not explained by pushy parents.
• 

  recovering

  Which person did I attack and attempt to discredit?I

  The most recent article I posted has nothing to do with educational differences. The article has to do with how intelligence needs to be measured due to recent scientific advances in cognition.

  As I stated before the are are differences in the scores. I am pointing out that the IQ test may not be a comprehensive test of intelligence due to a variety of factors.
• 

  Sugar Shane

  Simon—

  Good, Then we can agree that limited immigration from certain countries based on low IQ points. Or saying that immigrants from these countries are bound to fail, as Molyneux argues, is just pure hogwash.

  Maybe we can agree that the gang-bangers in the ‘rough’ parts of Detroit, Los Angeles, could do much better in the right environment. Likewise, we should agree that immigrants from countries like Zimbabwe, or Nigeria, both countries with high grad rates could do quite well, and NOT fail at all, in more developed countries. They might even contribute greatly, as Dr. Benet Omalu did with his research on concussions.

  As the poster, Recovey, and others have pointed out, IQ research is full of so much bias as to make the whole concept of measurable intelligence a joke. Sooo...when guys like Molybeux spew forth statements about IQ this, or IQ that, then we should dismiss it outright, because the foundation is too weak.

  So, I probably have you worked up now. Relax. We’re all in this race together. If you REALLY feel strongly about sonething. Go volunteer. If you have certain views on politics, or whatever, then start a YouChannel.

  I’m out. You guys can keep back-slappin,’ and high fiving each other like the penguins of Madagascar. I’ve gotta go preflight a big assed Boeing. Cheers.
• 

  LoveUniHateExams

  Good, Then we can agree that limited immigration from certain countries based on low IQ points. Or saying that immigrants from these countries are bound to fail, as Molyneux argues, is just pure hogwash - ok ... and maybe we can agree that different groups have different mean IQs and that this isn't 'racist.'

  It’s about education. As the poster, Recovey, and others have pointed out, IQ research is full of so much bias as to make the whole concept of measurable intelligence a joke - a joke? No, I don't think so. It's about much more than education/environment.

  Imagine two people with the same opportunities re education - the opportunity to be educated to the same Western standard: an Australian Aboriginal (80 IQ) and a white Australian (100 IQ). Same opportunities, same education. Who's gonna do better in education?
  
• 

  cofty

  Sugar - So no interest in confronting actual facts then? Typically your reaction is to run away shouting insults over your shoulder as you go.

  Science is NOT the enemy of equality and fairness. Quite the opposite. The mistake many make is to try to base their desire for equality on science-denial. That is a foolish strategy.

  There are very good objective reasons to treat everybody fairly without lying to ourselves. In the long run they are more stable reasons too.

  IQ research is full of so much bias as to make the whole concept of measurable intelligence a joke.

  Utter nonsense.
  
  
• 

  recovering

  I think that The differences in IS among different races is not necessarily racist. I do think that there are many flaws in how a standard IQ test measures intelligence. It is just not a comprehensive picture of cognition. Furthermore the use of IQ as a means test as to which races should be allowed to immigrate is a form of eugenics.

  Btw I am not saying that the concept of measuring IQ is a joke. What I am saying is that the standard IQ test probably falls short of measuring all factors involved in human intelligence. This is due to the variety of reasons I have discussed previously.
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  recovering

  Whoa I can't agree with Sugars statement regarding doing less research on intelligence. I think we should be doing more research on intelligence. I thought I made that clear. Just because I feel that standard IQ tests do not present a complete picture of intelligence does not mean we should curtail research in the field. If anything it points to the need for more research.
• 

  cofty

  But psychologists and neuroscientists don't restrict themselves to 'standard IQ' tests when doing serious research. They are aware of all the strengths, limitations and cultural biases of a whole battery of tests.

  Average intelligence of ethnic groups of humans varies. It is measurable. A significant part of the difference is genetic.

  None of these well-established - if inconvenient - facts provides any reason to make a judgement about any individual within a group or to treat anybody without dignity or respect.

  Molineux is a Libertarian - IMO one step away from psychopath.
• 

  Sugar Shane

  Typically your reaction is to run away shouting insults over your shoulder as you go..

  Hey, when I gotta go I gotta go.

  
  

  Btw, Penguins of Madagascar is hardly an insult. I kinda like those guys. But yeah, I don’t know that I’ve resorted to personal name calling on this (particular) thread. Words like Lib-tard, idiot, dolt, dumbfuck, Trumptard, RINO, left-wing nut job, right-wing nut job...I’ve tried to leave out of the dialogue. But hey, if catch me on it, call me out, and I’ll clean it up. I HAVE used the term Alt-right, and fascist, but not against anyone personally here, on the thread.
  
  
• 

  Simon

  Sugar Shane, I haven't seen so much "straw man" since I watched Worzel Gummidge.

  When you work with any machine or system you need to understand how it functions if you are to keep it in working order. Knowing what the individual parts do and how they interact is part of understanding the entire machine.

  Refusing to look at the capabilities or limitations of the individual cogs that make up society can put strains on other parts of it. Knowing what the capabilities or weaknesses are can help people make better decisions and pre-plan to make sure every cog in the machine isn't over worked, setup to fail or not being used as it could to ensure the smooth operation of the whole.

  It's not about crapping on anyone, it's about helping people to succeed and maximize their potential which benefits society as a whole.

  Simple denial doesn't help people who may benefit from extra attention in certain ways and the idea that no one should be different is very marxist. The left has never produced smooth functioning societies that work well for the majority and a lot of that is driven by the ideology of everyone being "the same" when they are clearly not.