Does anyone know of this guy, or agree with his statements on racial differences in IQ?

by Sugar Shane 104 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Sugar Shane
    Sugar Shane
    cultures are equal, yeah right...
    I think blownaway summed it up -- it's culture and how one is raised

    Orphancow, thank you for the link to Rushton’s bogus research. Much appreciated. 👍

    Differences my arise from a culture one is born into, but not from genetics.

    In other words, it’s nuture and not nature.

    Sooo, we can therefore agree that statements spewed forth by Alt-right spokesman, Stefan Molyneux, like this one, are just as bogus as Rushton’s claims?:

    “...skills and abilities have not been distributed evenly by mother nature between various ethnicities“—Stefan Molyneux, YouTube video, The Impending Collapse of Western Civilization, Nov 15, 2015

  • sparrowdown

    Conventional western concepts of IQ are overrated anyway there are different forms of intelligence.

  • Simon

    There are physical differences between different races, our brains are physical and also impacted by culture and upbringing, why would we expect there to be no difference at all when it comes to IQ?

    There have been lots of studies. The results are pretty clear. The only thing that seems controversial is the interpretation and what people want to do with the data.

  • Simon

    BTW: Why do people think "race is a social construct"? What exactly does that mean? Is that more post-modernist mumbo jumbo like gender being an invention in people's heads?

    Because it may just be me but I'm pretty sure I can see a difference between African, Chinese, Caucasian, Indian, Asian, and Aboriginal people, just like I can see a difference between a man and a woman.

    Are we meant to believe that we're imagining that people are different?

  • Simon
    How Rushton's research is incorrect ...

    That article starts by mis-stating the claim and setting up a perfect straw-man argument.

    Is it that people don't understand what average IQ means? If your race has an average IQ of 100 it doesn't mean you can't have an IQ of 150 or of 60, it is just what the average is. The average and the distribution affects the likely range of you having an IQ at either extreme.

    Just like men and women might have the same average IQ, the distribution is different - there are more men who are geniuses than there are women. If you don't like that fact, console yourself with the same fact stated differently, that there are more men who are low IQ idiots than women. In either case, it doesn't mean a women can't be a genius and can't be an idiot too, it's just numbers.

  • cofty
    In other words, it’s nuture and not nature

    The idea that variation in intelligence between individuals is more to do with parental environment rather than genetics is a historical curiosity.

    The debate is whether intelligence is 50% or 70% inheritable. All attempts to account for environmental factors can get it down a few points but not by much.

    Identical twins raised apart are highly similar; identical twins raised together are more similar than fraternal twins raised together; biological siblings are far more similar than adoptive siblings raised together who are no more similar than two individuals chosen at random.

    The heritability of intelligence increases with age typically rising to about 80% - Yes you do turn into your parents!

    It would be strange if average IQ didn't vary between different ethnic groups but so what? We need to accept the science and find other reasons to treat everybody with dignity and respect.

  • Simon

    I see intelligence as the result of a combination of genetics and environment.

    Your genetics set the boundaries for what you might achieve, your environment (culture and upbringing) dictate where you fall on the achievement spectrum within those boundaries.

    Just like physically, you have natural limits and suitability for different things. I could train every day and will never be an Olympic sprinter or a basketball player as I'm physically unsuited to excel at those.

    You could have someone who maximizes their potential, physically or mentally, through hard work and endeavour and good luck (wealthy parents, great teachers or trainers)

    You could have someone who outperforms them but underachieves their potential because they fritter or waste their natural abilities.

  • Sugar Shane
    Sugar Shane

    Simon, the article you just linked above, is from: "Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability," by J. Philippe Rushton.

    He’s the guy who’s research methods were shot down by Orphancow’s article.

    Beyond that, you give a lot of opinions: “I feel like,” or “I think that.” That’s fine, to have opinions, I have mine too. But, when it comes to studies, do you have anything outside of Rushton’s work to go on?

  • Simon
    He’s the guy who’s research methods were shot down by Orphancow’s article.

    Some guys blog is also less credible than published research papers. Sorry, anyone can make a blog - it's not research.

    Also, your original post is pretty low - taking snippets out of context to paint a picture different to what he actually says. For a more balanced view you might try reading some of the research and how it's done and how many different studies all result in similar findings.

  • Simon

    You also quoted the famous line: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...”

    What do you think this means? Does it mean that all people are identical? That all people can achieve the same things?

    In fact, how does it have any bearing on this topic at all? It's just an aspirational claim that people should be treated equally and have equal opportunities. Even though there is no way that can ever happen.

Share this