Watchtower Organisation - it's all over, bar the shouting (page 15)

slimboyfat

Yes I think that’s also something Morph fails to grasp: my threads are, in part, self-fulfilling prophecy. ;)

Vidiot

Now, now, slim, don't get cocky.

Seriously though...

...I gotta say, of all the things we thought might give the WTS real trouble...

..."financial difficulties" definitely wasn't in the top ten.

Obvious in retrospect, though, I suppose.

OrphanCrow

slimfatboy: my threads are, in part, self-fulfilling prophecy

They also echo this:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-briggs/the-financial-crisis-faci_b_8481434.html

Note that you could put "Jehovah's Witnesses" in the spots where "Catholic Church" is mentioned.

And, note the following advice for sustaining church finances:

Looking to the future
The financial issues are daunting, but they are not insurmountable, researchers said.
Zech notes that Pope Francis has taken the lead in calling for better management at every level. And it is not too late for the church in the U.S. to address these issues with greater attention to better stewardship practices.
One immediate step would be for each parish to have a professionally trained business manager or parish administrator. Other research-supported recommendations include establishing diocesan fraud policies and having annual randomly scheduled audits of parishes.
“It’s not rocket science,” he said.
The Ronsvalles state the potential for church giving is enormous.
In one small bright spot in their latest report, per member giving for benevolences increased eight-tenths of a percent from 2012 to 2013. But even that small increase meant the churches they studied had an extra $26 million to spend on issues such as helping children throughout the world make it to adulthood.
That sense of urgency permeating empty tomb’s latest report is reflected on its website, where a number that changes every few seconds documents the number of global children under age 5 who have died in 2015. As this column is being written, the deaths are approaching 5.3 million.
In a world where waves of refugees, debt crises and corruption are challenging the social welfare systems of even many of the most developed countries, religious organizations face their own defining moment.
Their financial health, and whether they spend their money to prop up declining organizations or to revive a spirit of generosity to their neighbors in need, matters more than ever.

The above article was written 3 years ago.

Apparently the org has financial researchers as well

slimboyfat

My view has changed since posting this thread. The fact is that JWs have not declined as I predicted, much less collapsed, or in any sense “struggled for survival”.

Now I pretty much agree with the response from redvip2000 on page 1 of the thread:

There is no sharp decline. There will still be Watchtower in 100 years, but I agree that it will slowly decline along with all other religions.

Although it’s worth noting that they still haven’t started declining numerically yet. But I do suspect it is only a matter of time before they do begin declining, albeit later, and probably more gradually than other churches. The number of congregations figure has already declined slightly in recent years, and other indicators may follow.

slimboyfat

notsurewheretogo was also right when he said:

Serious period of decline?
$1 billion in the bank and still growing at 8.3 million dubs...
They ain't going anywhere soon...

And they are over 8.6 million now …

dropoffyourkeylee

Everything I see where I live in the US shows a decline. Congregations close, merge with other congregations, number of congregations is less, KHs sell, attendance everywhere is less than expected, even counting zoom. They are lowering the bar to count someone as a publisher. Baptisms are just a handful each time, sometimes just one or two, even zero at times at some conventions. Its a decline all around from what I see. But still the WT figures in the US still show an increase just about every year. However, I have to keep reminding myself that these are anecdotal observations; what I personally see around me. There are other countries who are reporting continuing growth and reportedly as many as 800 baptized at a single convention (Nairobi a couple of years back, I know it is true because I had a family member in attendance and saw it happen).

I think the WT message has passed its sell-by date in US and developed countries; it's just now starting an upward trajectory in less developed countries. True these new JWs are not able to donate much in the way of funds, but this is a financial rather than a theological challenge.

ozziepost

The number of congregations figure has already declined slightly in recent years, and other indicators may follow.

My feeling is that the number of baptisms is the most significant indicator.

For growth to occur, there must firstly be a compensatory number for those who die. Logically those passing away would be replaced by those growing up “in the troof”.

Are there really so many of the youth committing themselves these days ?

Secondly, there are those who have been proselytised.

My gut feeling is that the number of those new ones is declining in significance and, with the new ‘edict’ about reporting, I can’t see that improving.

The end result seems to be a gradual decline and with a presence, yes, but even more insignificant than ever.

Vanderhoven7

ChatGPT has this to say

However, I can provide some general observations that might indicate a decline or potential challenges for any religious group, including Jehovah's Witnesses:

Decreasing Membership: A decline in the number of active members can be an indication of a religious group's decline. If there is a noticeable decrease in the number of Jehovah's Witnesses attending meetings, participating in door-to-door evangelism, or engaging in other activities, it could suggest a decline.

Reduced Influence or Importance: If the influence of Jehovah's Witnesses in society diminishes or their teachings become less prevalent, it could indicate a decline. This could include factors such as declining media presence, reduced impact on public discourse, or diminishing societal relevance.

Internal Disputes or Doctrinal Changes: If there are significant internal disputes or conflicts within the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, it may lead to a decline in membership or fragmentation. Doctrinal changes that are met with resistance from members could also contribute to a decline.

Negative Public Perception: Negative public perception or increased scrutiny can impact the growth or stability of a religious group. If Jehovah's Witnesses face sustained criticism or damaging revelations that erode public trust, it may affect their ability to attract new members or retain existing ones.

Generational Shifts: If younger generations are less likely to join or remain part of Jehovah's Witnesses, it can lead to a decline over time. Changing societal values, increased access to information, and differing religious preferences among younger generations could contribute to this trend.

Legal Challenges: If Jehovah's Witnesses face significant legal challenges or restrictions in various countries, it could impact their ability to operate freely and potentially lead to a decline.

It's important to remember that these signs don't necessarily indicate an imminent collapse but rather potential challenges that a religious group may face. Religious organizations can also adapt and evolve over time, making it difficult to predict their long-term trajectory with certainty.

blondie

I sincerely believe that the WTS doctors its numbers; hard for anyone outside those who do the "counting" to confirm. Since many jws only have been in 1 or 2 congregations, even if the numbers aren't low, there is no real comparison. BOEs are getting older, the WTS is telling young male jws to "reach out" but many see the problems the current elders have and don't want to be part of it. Too many children of jws are not staying in, either never get baptized, or just leave. Some stay in name only and don't contribute to the operation of the congregation either with their time, money, or energy. I remember a COBOE, said at the mid-week meeting, that of the people baptized in the last year in that congregation, all were children of current jws, only one was a person from the outside, and they had been df'd within a year. No new blood coming in. More dying from the boomer generation, no young jws "reaching out" and even leaving. Perhaps the "beard" thing and the "turning in time" things are a way to make it attractive for young and older jws to stay in. The one thing that holds back some is the extensive jw family they have, and having friends that are jw-based. Also, the WTS seems to have lowered the bar even more to qualify as an elder. Following the company line is more important that scriptural bases. Even in black and white, that even if the WTS seems to making non-scriptural based rules, more and more, they tend to say "the WTS says (the elders manual)" not the bible says. I guess time will tell.

Anony Mous

@slimboyfat: churches across the US are actually on a rebound. Increased attendance, increased donations, increased participation, especially in the more strict Baptist and Catholic faiths. People are being attracted to ‘classical’ Christianity as GenX and later see that the morals of this world are not what they promised and polls are seeing that 60% of kids under 18 have conservative religious leanings as well, regardless of what their parents are.

JWs are still on the decline though, because they have aligned themselves heavily with governmental entities and espouse such things publicly about masks and vaccines, churches that take a stance against government are what people are attracted to, mealymouth pushovers not so much, which is what I see in my community as well, the ‘gay’ BLM church down the road is practically abandoned, my Presbyterian church is seeing more and more people.

Watchtower Organisation - it's all over, bar the shouting

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