Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but Equal to the Father)

by JW Answers 89 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • JW Answers
    JW Answers
    Jehovah's Witnesses,

    Is Jesus Christ, Jehovah God? (Not the Father, but equal to the Father)

    What if the Watchtower told you about God in a false way, and yet the bible taught you about God in His true character, how would you respond?

    Could it be true, that the Watchtower have been leading you up the garden path, describing God in a way that the Bible does not describe? Please watch my latest video to help you to see how the Bible describes the Lord Jesus Christ, and also within my video, I explain from the New World Translation how the bible which the JWs use, also describes Jesus as Jehovah God.

  • The Fall Guy
    The Fall Guy

    Am I correct in saying that Mormons (LDS) teach this belief?

  • cofty

    So why do bible writers refer to 'the God and Father' of Jesus?

    If Jesus is unequivocally God, how can he have a God?

  • cofty

    The mistake you are making JWA, is to assume the bible presents a coherent Christology. If we read the letters of Paul and then the gospel of Mark, then the synoptic gospels and finally the gospel and letters credited to John we see an evolution of doctrine from Jesus a man anointed by God to Jesus the Divine being.

    The trinity is nowhere described in the bible; it is a post-biblical construction.

    A more promising approach is to show JWs that their relationship with Jesus is radically different from that enjoyed by early christians.

    Jehovah's Witnesses View of Jesus Compared to the Early Church

  • JW Answers
    JW Answers

    Cofty, you are not showing verses to counter-act what I am saying, and to say that "The trinity is nowhere described in the bible" shows your lack of understanding and knowledge towards the scriptures.

    The Bible explains that Jesus is God (As I have shown you)
    The Bible explains that the Holy Spirit is God (As I have explained in a previous video)
    The Bible explains that the Father is also God.

    If Jesus is NOT God, then how can He be the word of God?

    John 1:1
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

    The Word was God - If Jesus is a lesser God, then there are two God's in the Bible, but the Bible explains that there is ony ONE true God... also, if Jesus is a lesser god, how can He be the Word of God? Surely that would mean that He is the Word of a god, but He is the WORD of GOD.

    Satan wants nothing more to demish the person of the Lord Jesus.

    Crofty, if you fail to acknowledge that Jesus is God, then you do not have the Holy Spirit...

    1 Corinthians 12:3

    "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost."

    Do you believe that Jesus Christ is THE LORD? Obviously by your response, the answer is no, thus the Bible explains this...

    1 John 4:1
    "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."

    Try the Spirits... how? By the word of God. This shows that you do not have the Holy Spirit, thus you surely cannot be saved, so it is pointless trying to argue the fact here with someone who is not saved if they are making up excuses to deny the deity of the Lord Jesus.

    To answer your question above, the Lord Jesus Christ still acknowledges His Father as His God by way of an example for ourselves to follow. When Jesus was on the earth, he acknowledged that the Father was greater than Him (John 10:29) yet in Colossians and Philippians, Paul acknowledges that Jesus is Equal to the Father...

    Colossians 2:9
    " For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily."

    Philippians 2:5-6
    "Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with

    However when He came to this earth, He made Himself of no reputation and TOOK ON the form of a Servant (Phil 2:7)

    The reason He did this was...

    Phil 2:8
    "And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

    To Humble Himself for the suffering of death.

    Hebrews 2:9
    "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

    Throughout the Bible, the scriptures speak of CHRIST, and showing you His deity. The verses I quoted in the video give strong evidence towards His deity.

    All you have said is quoting your own understanding, your own traditions and teachings...Parrotted what others have said in times past, without having any scriptural back up.

    Matthew 15:9
    "But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."

    Galatians 2:8
    "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."

    You quoted "The Trinity is NOWHERE described in the bible" Oh really?

    1 John 5:7
    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

    I bet you will say something idiotic like... "Oh that verse should not be in the bible, it was put in by the Catholics..." Says who? It's God's word... stop listening to man.

    1 Corinthians 2:5
    "That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God."

    To deny the trinity is to deny the scriptures friend.

    Who Raised Jesus from the Dead?

    Acts 13:30
    "But God raised him from the dead."

    Which members?

    The Father (Galatians 1:1)
    The Son (John 2:19)
    The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11)

    You also state that the Holy Spirit is not God? Yet, once we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, we are sealed BY the Holy Spirit of God (Eph 1:13)

    Here is another thought for you... it was GOD who chastened the Isrealittes and destroyed them in the wilderness right? Because of their tempting and complaining...

    Numbers 21:5-6
    "And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died."

    Yet, Paul said it was Christ who sent the Fiery Serpents, indicating he knew who Christ really was...

    1 Corinthians 10:8-10
    "Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer."

  • JW Answers
    JW Answers

    You see, it points that Christ IS God.

    To say anything else, shows your lack of understanding of the scriptures, and your denial of who Christ is...

    Crofty, let me say something to you which the Lord Jesus said to the Jews, who also believed they were serving God...

    John 5:39
    "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

    Men think they have eternal life, but they ignorantly deny the scriptures and go on their own understanding...

    Proverbs 14:12
    "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."

    YOU preach another Christ... which Paul warned of.

    2 Corinthians 11:4
    "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."

    It is best searching the scriptures, and making sure you are asking God for His understanding, rather than the understanding of what men say.. it's good having your own opinion, but make sure it's not an opinion that preaches false teachings which you have done.

    Job 32:8
    "But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding."

    Do you read the bible for your understanding, or seek men's wisdom, understanding and their in-sight.? Your are as bad as JWs who are a cult leading people to hell... don't become one of them....

  • cofty

    JWA - I have no interest in exchanging proof-texts like a JW. I could easily post an even longer list but it would prove nothing because the bible does not present a coherent Christology.

    shows your lack of understanding and knowledge towards the scriptures - JWA

    My knowledge of the bible, xtian theology and the history and beliefs of the Watchtower is exceptional. If you think that listing dozens of disconnected verses from all over the bible without regard for the original context is impressive, then we are not on the same page.

    The trinity is nowhere described in the bible. This is a fact that even the most conservative of knowledgeable christians agree.

    1 - Please describe and illustrate the trinity succinctly in your own words without contradicting yourself or committing a heresy.

    2 - Perhaps you could also address my question above - why do bible writers refer to 'the God and Father' of Jesus? If Jesus is unequivocally God, how can he have a God?

  • cofty
    I bet you will say something idiotic like... "Oh that verse should not be in the bible, it was put in by the Catholics..." Says who? It's God's word... stop listening to man.

    Why would it be 'idiotic' to point out the simple fact that this verse, 'the Johannine Comma', is missing from the oldest and most reliable manuscripts?

    Are you familiar with the ad hominem fallacy?

    It's very telling that when somebody points out that the bible contains no clear statement of the Trinity you are forced to resort to a verse that is rejected by the vast majority of scholars. If the doctrine of the trinity is important why did Jesus not state it unequivocally and why did God not preserve this statement?

    Please note that I am NOT saying that the bible does not contain many verses that support a view of Jesus as God. The problem is that is also contains many other verse that do the opposite.

    You start from one position and then cherry-pick your 'evidence'. The Watchtower does the same from the other side. Both of you are ignoring the inconvenient fact that the bible does not present a coherent Christology.

  • Finkelstein

    If Jesus is NOT God, then how can He be the word of God?

    John 1:1
    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,

    and the Word was God."

    Same old bullshit Scripture that certain elements of Christendom uses to show that a-ha see Jesus is god.

    They refuse to acknowledge that Jesus was the spoken about Messiah that the ancient Hebrew theology taught.

    One written Scripture doesn't negate all others Scripture in defining who or what was Jesus and who or what was YHWH.

    Defining essentially who was the father and who was the son.

    ie. when Jesus was on the torture stake he cried out " father why have you forsaken me "

    So was Jesus then talking to himself ?

  • JW Answers
    JW Answers

    Again, no verses to back up your teachings, and you are trying to teach me what men are teaching rather than discussing the scriptures... it's not cherry picking, it's truth telling and rightly dividing the scriptures (2 Tim 2:15). If Jesus is not God, then you will have to ignore a lot of other verses in the bible.

    Thank you for your time.

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