Your Opinion Pleeease
WireRider,This OP should have died days ago; all you are doing is confirming to me and the rest of the lurkers that you have made a wonderful nest for me in the middle of your basal ganglia and frontal cortex.You and thankyou are noobs; both of you arrived within a couple of weeks of each other within the last 3 months, and you both have identical profiles - non-dub males who have a thing for dub girls. You aren't thankyou's friend? Are you thankyou? His gurfriend, girlfriend? Or are you thankyou's alter ego, like Tyler Durden (Brad Pitt) to Edward Norton's unnamed character in Fight Club. He hides behind skirts; Tyler fights his battles and is the man he will never be. THAT would be way freaking cool!!!
Regarding my analysis of thankyou's 'In my soul I feel a spiritual obligation. I don't need her love or her warm body. I need to help her. I have unlimited girl friends. It can't be explained with just words here.': (WTF??? I mean really. What. Tha. Fuck: Of course he doesn't NEED her love or another warm girl body; he has an unlimited supply of them already and one more would be, well, it would just be needy. And greedy. Save some warm girl bodies for the rest of us thank you thankyou. The only things missing in this comment are 'or her voluptuous breasts or pouty, cherry red lips because I have, you know, an unlimited number of warm girl bodies who love me already'.
David Koresh likely said something similar to his emasculated male followers shortly before talking them into letting him be the ONLY one to have sex with their wives and daughters.
Thankyou's comments are more suggestive of a Koresh wannabe looking to hone his recruiting skills or another garden variety internet predator than someone desperately seeking Susan. They also are high on the EWWWWW factor.
Thankyou's OP was toast after he made these comments and did not qualify them; I put into words what a lot of others were thinking. Rather than respond/clarify, thankyou resorted to the following:
Ad Hominem - "Sounds like you are lost in a very dark place." Personal attack (The most common debating tactic when one has no counter argument) - Since I didn't agree with thankyou, I'm in a "very dark place" - not just a "dark place" but a "very dark place."
Argument from intimidation: "Kate, thank you for being "normal" and "optimistic."" Appeal to moral self-doubt and its reliance on the fear, guilt or ignorance of the victim. It is used in the form of an ultimatum demanding that the victim renounce a given idea without discussion, under threat of being considered morally unworthy. Since I didn't agree with thankyou, I'm not "normal" or "optimistic".
Self deprecating humor: a time honored manner to exit with humor and grace while admitting no wrongdoing. Kudos to thank you. My response was 'that's funny', thus allowing him to save face. He/you should have left it alone, but apparently he/you has/have been brooding for several days and it became an obsession. You should have let this end with thankyou's self deprecating humor, because that is where it deserved to die.
See WireRider/thankyou/thankyou's gurlfriend/Tyler Durden/Edward Norton's un-named character, you can learn a lot from me. But you have to let me.
If she can't take a "happy new year" then the relationship is likely doomed. Please be your natural self with her and let things develop (or not) naturally. Any falseness on your part, going against your true nature (I don't mean lose your manners and decency and revert to ape behavior, ok??!!) will just mean that she is accepting someone other than the YOU that YOU have to live with for the rest of your life. Changing your nature for another is dooming the relationship to failure. If you can't be you in dating, how will you survive a long term relationship? You are who you are.
Only The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society can offer this young woman the hope of eternal life in a Paradise Earth with a straight face.
The guy (lucky he) loses.
Thank you. You offer some one in my situation an opportunity to adopt a win-win attitude. I appreciate it!
Thanks for your advice.
I agree that, in general, what you suggest is the best attitude to adopt.
But, in this specific exceptional situation, meeting this girl was like "deja vu" or questioning as to whether or not reincarnation of someone you have previously known, could be reality. It is very powerful.
I agree that temporarily adopting an insincere strategy (phony baloney) will backfire.
On the other hand, if you are with all sincerity, trying to become a more patient, understanding, loving person in order to get to the bottom of this and to help a tormented other, then my 2 cents is that, this is a good thing.
You remarkably have the worst insecurity complex I have seen in a long time. Your'e narcissism is dwarfed only by your overwhelming feelings of inadequacy and insecurity.
I hate to break it to you - you don't bother me. You are just an asshole.
I check in once or twice a week. I take a minute once in a while to comment. Your insistence on expanding definitions of physiology, that you don't understand, clearly shows your compulsion here. Good luck with that.
I'm guessing you are about 14 based on your sentence structure, miss-spellings, punctuation, and grammatical errors.
(WTF??? I mean really. What. Tha. Fuck:
And greedy. Save some warm girl bodies for the rest of us thank you thankyou
I'm going with a 13 yr old with a cell phone from his parents.
I mean, Ouch.
So mom is limiting your internet access again, huh Wire Rider? You are still forgetting to delete butt f**k from your browser history, aren't you. Moms are like that.
In addition to world class analysis that I asked but you have yet to refute or even address because you can't, I have creatively provided:
A reference to a Brad Pitt/Edward Norton movie
A reference to a Madonna movie
Two references as to the location in the brain where scientists believe obsessions reside and where I am currently living rent free in yours. I would like to paint and put up some art; is that OK?
A not so veiled reference to the way you are acting, gurlfriend
An extremely creative reference to you being an alter ego (I know, this is doubling the Fight Club reference but come on! This is gold, dude)
An urban slang reference to slices of bread that signifies destruction (can you find it??)
And you have responded with off the shelf, common and uninspired name calling. This is my last response to you on this, out of respect for thankyou (who I think is probably a very nice person) and that you present absolutely no challenge and have no arrows in your intellectual quiver. You will have the last word; at least be creative.
Be aware folks that all these wonderful posts and comments will remain here in this forum for at least the next 20 years at the time Simon's failing eyesight and ever increasing weariness will diminish his moderating and pruning ability .. at which point they will serve to provide great entertainment for the future ex-dubs that gravitate here and maybe will think twice before asking for relationship advice. Just a thought..
Wire rider - stop being a cock
To the OP - txt her a picture of your wedding vegetables - that always works well.
One of Ben Stein's rules for ruining your life:
"Become involved with someone with lot's of emotional problems and think you can fix them by nagging"
Ok. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Since you are likely to proceed despite all the warnings you have been given, you might as well do it properly.
You have two choices:
- Become a dub
- Get her to leave the dubs
Since the JW are widely accepted to be a cult by experts in the field (ex moonie and cult expert Steven Hassan), I would prefer you got her to leave.
So how to proceed. First off, I would put romance out of your head. It isn't happening anyway. Just concentrate on being a good friend. She has given you a pretty definitive no go there. So at this point if you continue to pursue her romantically you are being a creepy bastard with obsessive-stalker tendencies. A great idea would be for you to move on romantically. It will put her at ease keeping you as a friend, get her off your mind in that way, and who knows... the law of supply and demand dictates that making yourself more scarce will elevate your value in her eyes... (presuming of course that she had any demand for you to begin with)
So now that you have accepted that you are in the friend zone, cuz brother, trust me you are, you can proceed as one.
My bonafides... (AKA why I can say I know what I am talking about) I had a wife join the JW, and through the help of the folks here I was able to stay out of the way long enough for her to find her way out.
I recommend reading up on how to best proceed in helping someone exit a cult. The aforementioned Steve Hassan has some excellent books on the subject. His latest is book is Freedom of Mind. I can't speak to it since I haven't read it.
I read Releasing the Bonds and the originally published Combatting Cult Mind Control. In my opinion Combatting was most helpful for me. I hear he has an updated version of that book that specifically addresses growing up in cults and even the JW specifically.
Learn about cults, help her get in touch with her authentic personality (she has been imprinted with a false JW one) and through care and patience she might see her way out... and she still might not like you.
Good luck. Seriously. I hope it all works out.
Thank you very much for a thoughtful helpful reply. I really appreciate it!
You must be prescient too.
"A great idea would be for you to move on romantically .......... get her off your mind in that way."
Now I'm not narcissistic, bragging, boasting, or egotistical etc. etc., but at the time I met the JW girl I already had 2 very nice looking girl friends, but rapidly lost interest in them n haven't been able to "move on" romantically.
However, "the powers that be" must think; hey this guy is a helpless sad case. He needs help.
Because, New Years Day my daughter called from CA to greet me. She told me "dad, don't be chasing girls, it's too stressful, just live your life and if it happens, it happens".
I thought well, maybe. But the problem is you could be waiting forever.
Before "women's lib", girls would chase guys. And, it seems to me guys n girls were much happier. I know I was. Rarely happens now. The most a girl will do now is smile and hover around you giving you chances.
I mean I never let today's situation stop me. I'm cautiously aggressive. But, you know that nonsense that you hear all the time about "stalking" does lurk in your mind. That's obviously creepy stuff and easy to recognize, but doesn't apply to the average guy, but it does, I believe, affect/restrict him.
Anyway, after hanging up the phone conversation w/my daughter, I immediately went into the large grocery store here.
A girl of the same race, height, age as the JW girl was talking on her cell phone n checking me out, as they say.
I thought to myself "oh, I got enough troubles" and walked straight to the back of the store to buy some packaged pre-cut fruit. As I reached in to get it, this girl was now standing next to me n talking to me.
After about 30 seconds of conversation, without asking her, she wrote down her cell ph nbr and gave it to me, then typed my cell nbr into her cell ph n immed. called my ph.
When I got home, she had called an additional 2x. The 4th time I answered and she gave me a legitimate reason to go back to the store parking lot to talk some more. And, we did.
"On the face of it", this girl now a days would appear to be too aggressive or weird or something. But, I gave it a chance. I thought she might just be her "real self", as people used to be, before the women's lib crap. (I mean I do agree there were guys who were "unfaithful", or abusers but that was a small minority).
So far, and I emphasize "SO FAR" she's proven to be a really nice and a religious girl too.
She has called me like 2x day and we've met almost every day. I guess the universe had to send a gal to whom I really appealed in order to weaken my resolve/hope for the JW girl. Believe me, it's really nice to have someone attracted to you.
She said she's trying to get me, but that she believes I'm running. I explained that I'm meeting her n talking to her so I'm not running from her.
Anyway, she's getting to me, which I guess is what was necessary for me to realize the JW girl may never happen again.
In my heart, I believe the JW girl n I felt the same way about each other naturally, it's just that JW is "controlling" her. You folks know far better than I will ever know exactly how JW can damage a person.
So anyway, I don't know what's going to happen with the JW girl. I'ld be perfectly happy to be her life long friend and be supportive and helpful to her. I just don't know if it's going to be possible. I fear she could "slip" through the cracks of society. I worry about her a lot.
Anyway, you kindly wrote a comprehensive reply, so I thought I'ld do the same. And who knows some aspect of it may help some other guy.
To me, years ago guys seemed a little competitive. Now a days guys seem really ok and kind of resigned to the consequences of the women's lib. movement.
My advice to a girl is if you are seeking a boyfriend or significant other, or husband, be cautious/prudent of course, but if you meet a guy that appeals to you don't be afraid to pursue him to the extent that you need to in order to find out if he is a decent, responsible, wholesome guy.
It's 2am here, good night