prologos,
All members of the great crowd are Other Sheep (Earthly Hopers), but not all Other Sheep are members of the Great Crowd.
That's true insofar as what JW's refer to as "Pre-Christian Witnesses" are concerned. During the Christian Era however, "Other Sheep" do not exist apart from the "Great Crowd." --Not as a class at any rate. The JW parent organization has said this many times in print.
Here are some explicit statements:
"It was Scripturally
explained that the "great crowd" ("great multitude," King James Version)
refers to the "other sheep" who live during the time of the end." (
The Watchtower February 15, 2003 p. 19)
"Those
of the other sheep gathered in the time of the end will make up the
"great crowd" destined to survive "the great tribulation," with the
prospect of living forever on a paradise earth." (The Watchtower February 1, 2002 p. 21)
"Finally,
in 1935 the other sheep living during the time of the end of this
system of things were recognized as being the great crowd seen in vision
by the apostle John." (Isaiah's Prophecy: Light For All Mankind Vol. II p. 255)
"In
a stirring talk on "The Great Multitude," delivered to about 20,000
conventioners, J.F. Rutherford presented Scriptural proof that the
modern-day "other sheep" are identical with that "great crowd" of
Revelation 7:9 (John 10:16) (The Watchtower May 15, 2001 p. 15)
"In
1935 this group of "other sheep" were discerned to be the "great
crowd..out of all nations seen in vision by the apostle John." (The Watchtower January 1, 2000, p. 12)
"However,
the other sheep living in the time of the end were prophesied to grow
to be a "great crowd, which no man was able to number..." (The Watchtower February 15, 1995 pp. 19-20)
"So
it was seen that this prophecy referred to the numberless great crowd
from all nations who are now being gathered and whose hopes are earthly.
They are "the sheep" of Matthew 25:31-46 and the "other sheep" of John
10:16." (The Watchtower May 15, 1995 p. 20)
"J.F.
Rutherford, president of the Watch Tower Society, gave Scriptural proof
that the modern-day other sheep are identical with the great crowd of
Revelation 7:9." (Revelation: It's Grand Climax At Hand! pp. 120-122)
Here are some implicit statements:
"With consciences cleansed, anointed Christians render "sacred service to the living God." And so do the great crowd." (Pay Attention To Daniel's Prophecy p. 267)
"They
also discerned that the Bible holds out two destinies - a heavenly one
for the 144,000 anointed footstep followers of Christ and a paradise
earth for an unnumbered "great crowd" of "other sheep." (The Watchtower May 15, 1995 p. 18)
"Would
anointed Christians be the only ones to enjoy the blessings promised to
Abraham? No, for Jesus sacrifice benefits the whole world. (1 John 2:2)
In time, Jehovah revealed that an unnumbered "great crowd" would
survive the end of Satan's system." (Draw Close To Jehovah p. 197)
"Jesus
disciples entertain one of two hopes. First, a "little flock" numbering
144,000 has been gathered.....Second, in the last days, "a great crowd
of "other sheep" have manifested themselves." (Isaiah's Prophecy: Light For All Mankind Vol II pp. 241, 242)
Do you want to introduce a tentative "Great Crowd Generation"
starting in 1935 ? -- that would be great too, it would dovetail with
our old wt teaching that the GT started in 1014, was interrupted in
1918, to allow the Great Crowd to get out of it (and her), and then
only restart at Armageddon, soon, just around the corner.. so, 1935 is
better than 1914, it would give us octogenarians a fighting chance. Too
bad the Forward Fred Franz overlappers will last to ~ 2075. Might my reasoning be too simplistic?
Too simplistic. In the year 1970, the "Great Tribulation" was relocated to an indeterminate point in the future. Identification of the "Great Crowd" no longer hinged on the idea that this group had already come out of the "Great tribulation." It hinged on the idea that they would live to see it and were therefore, "Prospective" members of the great crowd in the sense that they had the prospect of surviving it, provided they were faithful. As I've already pointed out, this idea is limited by the length of a human lifespan.
I would also point out that in JW theology, the idea of "Other Sheep" apart from the "Great Crowd" during the Christian era would constitute a class of Christians who attain neither of the two salvations that JW's teach the Bible holds out for Christians. That is a problem of epic proportions and a violation of Christian theology at a very basic level.
Christians don't serve God specifically for a reward, but at the same
time, without a reward, Christianity is entirely futile (1 Cor 15:19) because the implication is that God simply doesn't care whether you are faithful or not.
Since
JW's believe that virtually everyone regardless of whether they were
"good" or "bad" will be resurrected and given a second chance in
Paradise, allowing for the existence of "Other Sheep" in the Christian
era who are not "Identical with that "great crowd"" removes that reward.
In
practical terms what would this mean? Early Christians were willing to
face death in the arena rather than worship one of the Roman gods. They
were willing to do this because they believed that their salvation was
at stake.
Consider what happens if we remove that reward: What if
those that refused to worship the Roman gods are treated no different
than those that did? What if those that died in the arena are simply
resurrected to life on earth just the same as those who escaped
punishment by burning incense to the Emperor's diety? What reason would
there be for dying in the arena at all? --None whatsoever. Remove the
heavenly reward and you remove the reason to be faithful.
The
situation is virtually the same in a modern setting. Why convert to the
JW faith? Why go to all the meetings, go out knocking on doors, refuse
to celebrate holidays, etc.? JW's do this because they, like the early
Christians, believe that their salvation is at stake. For non-anointed
JW's that salvation is described at Revelation 7:9-10.
What
happens if we remove that reward? What happens if JW's simply grow old
and die and are eventually resurrected to life in paradise just like
everyone else who never bothered with the JW faith at all? What reason
would anyone have for being a JW? --None whatsoever.
Take for
example, a fictional JW family. The grandparents were baptized as adults
in the late 1930's and never considered themselves to be anointed. They
were the only members of their respective families to become JW's.
They've been dead for 20 years now. How is their fate any different than
all their "Unbelieving" brothers and sisters and cousins that never
bothered with the JW faith? In JW theology, there is no difference.
They're all going to be resurrected.
Any way you look at it, an
"Earthly hope" is not a doctrine that can be taught longer than about a
generation or so. It's only the proximity of the end and the prospect of
not having to die that makes it viable. Remove that reward and you
remove any reason to be faithful.
Do you see a difference between being a survivor and coming out of (without going into)?
Personally, yes. In JW theology, no.
