JWs have more good points than bad

by lsw1961 183 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • goingthruthemotions
    lsw1961 blow it out your A-hole, you brainwashed zombied POS.
  • kaik

    There is no denying for many of as ex-JW that there were some good points which I kept even after WT like smoking. I never smoke once cigarette in my life. I was not even trying after WT. If WT were channel of God's communication, they would have non-smoking policy since 1874, but this came 100 years later!

  • Bonsai
    this is the reason why I adopted a different strategy—I support JW for their good, but secretly disapprove their failings, thus avoid the heart-break of losing my loved ones.

    Confrontation is not a good idea always. Not giving your heart to things you do not approve is a sweet rebellion with no possibility of ever being noticed/punished.


    I totally understand that you have to keep up pretenses for your loved ones. I know other witnesses who are in the same unenviable position that you are in. If you can stomach the mental torture, then stay in and try to change things from the inside. Don't just secretly disapprove of their failings. Inaction from those still in like you will only prolong the injustice and pain that is being inflicted on your fellow brothers.

    But be warned, sooner or later reality will catch up with you. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. It will get ripped out from your hands because the whole organization is trained top to bottom to spy on each other.

  • Ucantnome
    When I found certain things confusing, I brought to the attention of the higher-ups who, in turn, told me to wait for Jehovah. I left it at that, and am still in the organization. You may accuse me of trying to be part of a herd which is comforting. If I had asserted, I would have been disfellowshipped and organization would still continue as it was before, thus asserting accomplishes nothing. However, asserting implies trying to prove that individual is more important than the organization, hence such individual should be shown the exit so that he can enjoy life outside the boundary!

    I found it impossible to engage in the witnessing work as I was no longer convinced about the significance of 1914 and the events that supposedly took place. In order to preach and to be a Witness I must be convinced that it is true.

    Fairly recently I discussed briefly with an elder who called at my door about 607/1914 and he told me as far as he was concerned it didn't matter if 1914 was not the right date and was aware of the possible problems with the chronology.

    That doesn't sound to me like he is convinced of what he is preaching.

    Isw1961 it would seem that you are suggesting that I should have continued witnessing although i wasn't convinced of what i was witnessing while waiting the past twenty years on Jehovah. You say

    ' However, asserting implies trying to prove that individual is more important than the organization '

    I am not asserting anything. I changed my view when the Watchtower published something that was a change from another view that I had from the Watchtower. I was no longer certain and being no longer certain cannot be a witness. If I was in a court room and as a witness i was asked am i convinced of what i was relating and I said no I think that my acting as a witness would mean nothing. Isn't it like that being a witness for Jehovah?

    That's fine you may say but the elder came to my door to preach the message and I assume he thinks I should act to be part of the great crowd that survives Armageddon. So what should I do? Be a hypocrite and look at the good points while I preach the great tribulation is coming. This is a quote from the book the Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah- How? Page 112

    'Any associates of Christendom who survive her destruction in the "great tribulation" will not come through to any improved, long-lived future, any more than did those hypocritical survivors of ancient Jerusalem's destruction. They face only further hardship and eventual destruction in the further and concluding part of the "great tribulation."'

    This view may have changed but this book we studied about the time I was baptised. Now this is talking about my close relatives, some who are theologians. They are not convinced after much study that Jehovah's Witnesses have it right and identifying oneself as a witness by engaging in the preaching and being hopefully part of the great crowd as understood by JW I would be supporting this view although not convinced myself and supporting those who may share it. That doesn't sound good to me. Not a good point.

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    ISW61 - thanks for posting and hope you stick around.

    For me it is very hard to accept your proposition that JWs are more good than bad.

    All I see from my perspective is harm. I see an organisation that uses abusive psychological manipulation based on fear, guilt and shame to impose conformity and absolute obedience.

    If you read the stories of people on this site you will see the damage the organisation has caused.

    The organisation has a "blame the victim" approach to this and I suspect you will see it from this persepctive but if you read these stories with an open heart hopefully you will start to understand.

    From my personal experience I can tell you that my sister-in-law (she committed suicide 10 years ago) would still be alive today if not for the fact the the family are under the control of the organsiation and the elders backed her into a corner so she felt she had nowhere to turn.

    I would also encourage you to look at your fellow man with an open heart and yes you see a lot of bad behaviour which the media highlights but you will also see humanity, kindness and selflessness and in my view the good of humanity outweighs the bad and if you look at statistics about crime, poverty and war (ratrher than be influenced by hedlines) you will see that civilization has been improving over time - not the reverse as is portrayed by the organisation. The organisation is heavily invested in portraying the world as bad - it is one of the tactics to isolate and control. I would encourage you to look at this question with an open mind and without the organisation's blinkers - you will be surprised by what you find.

    Good luck


  • Tornintwo

    I think if you recognize there are good and bad points in the witness organisation, you then have to concede that there are good and bad points in all Christian religions, such as those that do many charitable works to help those genuinely suffering. If God will overlook the negatives in the witness faith why not in other faiths? There are wheat and weeds everywhere, I've met a fair few nasty weeds in the jw org.

    But the problem really comes to the fore when those negatives in an organisation amount to abuse. Such as :

    allowing children to be raped under the cover of your religion through misapplication of the ancient 2 witness rule.

    Or cutting off young people from their communities and families because they may be confused or have committed a 'sin', in many cases leading to depression, even suicide.

    Or telling a battered wife that her situation isn't extreme enough for a separation and never for a divorce, telling her to forgive and be more submissive, sending her back into a potentially dangerous escalation of violence.

    Or telling depressed, downtrodden and exhausted ones to just do more.

    Or telling people they don't need an education, a career or a retirement plan, then mocking them in derision when they complain about that bad advice and its consequences.

    or looking down on all non witnesses as 'worldly' ones, or is it 'amharets' as the Pharisees used to say and preaching death and destruction for 999 out of 1000, removing the love and mercy of christs message

    or insisting people die when medical advances could save them, through misapplication of an ancient dietary law, when Jesus again and again emphasized the value of life (hence breaking gods law in curing on the sabbath)

    or lying and concealing past mistakes and false prophecy, blaming almighty God for old light or their followers for misunderstanding ('75ers')

    If we use the abuser analogy; Would you say because an abusive husband is kind at times and does good works that excuses him subjecting his wife and children to violence? That they should put up with the abuse for the sake of the good points? Or would you say they are right to seek peace and protection elsewhere?

  • Half banana
    Half banana

    Isw have you thought what good is and what bad is?

    Good usually refers to the things which will enhance or promote the values of the society in which we live... and bad, the things which go against our culture. In New Guinea, to have the skulls of warrior people from neighbouring tribes hung from your roof was seen as a positive thing! So it would be unfair to make a comparison of good JW things with good non JW things.

    This means we have a choice of what is good or not and why we choose to be a member of a particular community. So I question the wisdom of making a list of the merits without recognising that good is not absolute but relative to the community.

    We could however look at the effects of being a JW under the GB instructions and compare with those who optimise their freedom and education in a secure democracy outside of it.

    To be a JW means to be beholden. Even one’s conscience is handed over to the governing body...this is a dire blow for individual freedom. To be a JW means never fully expressing one’s own desires or fulfilling personal ambitions...to be a JW is to have our lives and learning and income cramped and limited. We never mature, we remain infantilised!

    Here is where we who have left can relate the experience of real freedom.We left usually not for the sake of freedom but because the WTBTS was in error. I lost my wife and two of my children to the cult by leaving yet my optimism and happiness have increased enormously. I am no longer in thrall to the seven magic dwarves of Brooklyn; I can fully enjoy my human entitlement to free expression and self determination.

    I look back with pity on my kids and I have loathing for the small minded cult leaders who have caused me and my family the greatest trials in our lives but I am very thankful now to be free.

    (Personally, I think the shrunken head of Tony Morris would go well dangling on a cord from the ceiling of my office... if it were pickled properly.)

  • slimboyfat

    Some people are happier when they leave the JWs and some people are not.

    The funny thing is that some choose to leave even though they doubt they will be happier as a result. Perceiving yourself to be living an inauthentic existence is just too much sometimes.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    I'm disappointed - but not surprised - that you refuse to address any the WTBTS's lies which I asked you to comment on. I can only guess that you feel your statement, "In this core belief,* they have not erred, and will not err. If at all they have erred, it’s all in supplementary teachings which are too insignificant to shake the very core teaching" mitigates the lies and evil practices of the Org.

    On that basis - playing Devil's Advocate - the famous U.K. disc jockey Jimmy Savile worked in hospitals for free and carried out years of selfless effort for charities, raising countless mi££ion$ for them. So he did a few bad things, but at his core he was a compassionate man! Your reasoning on the Org's corruption being "too insignificant" is indefensible.

    *Even their core teaching is corrupt; e.g. Christ is not the mediator between man & God (as the apostle Paul stated) because he only mediates for an elite few who have ever lived, and only the elite are in the new covenant.

  • sparky1

    JWs have more good points than bad.

    "Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain

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