Breaking News, London: Van Ploughs into Pedestrians

by Simon 71 Replies latest social current

  • konceptual99
    A friend of mine is in a coma after this attack. Hope he pulls through

    Really sorry to hear this Laika. Hope he pulls through too.

  • LoveUniHateExams

    First, my condolences to the families of the dead. I hope the injured make a recovery, including Laika's friend.

    @The Searcher - faith schools need looking into, although I'm not sure how much they're connected to all this.

    What definitely does need looking into is our universities.

    The Manchester pop concert bomber studied at Salford Uni. Their Student Union has opposed the government's Prevent strategy at every turn (not just criticised certain aspects of it, but criticised the idea of having anti-terrorist measures). I think Salford uni should be held accountable, at least to some degree.

    Yesterday's terrorists are unlikely to have attended a strict Islamic school, although I suppose it's possible. I think the role our universities play in becoming hotbeds of Islamic extremism and preventing anti-terrorist measures urgently needs looking into.

  • Simon
    A friend of mine is in a coma after this attack. Hope he pulls throu

    Sad to hear. Maybe you'll change your opinion now of people who criticize Islam being labelled "islamophobes".!#5101770

  • Simon

    A police officer at the scene of the attack tried to tackle the three men armed only with a baton. He received serious injuries to his head, face and leg but will hopefully recover.

    An absolute HERO, the kind that walks among us, probably get's shit and judgement from some people but who steps up when the time calls for good men.

    Or as the left will no doubt claim, an Islamophobe who attacked 3 peaceful muslims celebrating Ramadan (a-ding-dong).

  • hothabanero
    Or as the left will no doubt claim, an Islamophobe who attacked 3 peaceful muslims celebrating Ramadan (a-ding-dong).

    lol, I am sure of it! The left is completely INSANE. They have gone so bonkers they will defend terrorism and islam.

    @Laika: Sorry to hear about your friend.

  • Finkelstein

    A police officer at the scene of the attack tried to tackle the three men armed only with a baton

    Simon , is it still a fact that London bobbies don't carry guns ?

  • freemindfade

    "Moderate" Muslims are the grass the terrorist snakes hide in.

  • cofty

    Fink - Yes the vast majority of UK police do not carry guns or even tasers.

    Having said that nobody in a large town or city is far from specially trained mobile armed officers. Since the Manchester attack they have been highly visible on the streets. I was in Newcastle last week and counted 6 officers with automatic weapons in a small area. In london a large number of armed police are out in force in vehicles all the time. I believe they also had helicopter support.

    Most Brits approve of keeping a mostly unarmed force. A policeman with a weapon has to interact very differently with the public in order to protect his own weapon. With unarmed police an aggressive drunk is likely to get taken down by a few officers working together very professionally to protect themselves and the idiot they are arresting. Everybody goes home to their families. As we see all to often in the USA potentially minor incidents can escalate quickly with fatal consequences.

    I don't believe all police have the suitable psychological skills to be armed. In the UK police have to pass rigorous selection and training to be armed. The course has a high failure rate.

    Most UK officers will never encounter a criminal with a gun during their career.

  • Simon

    I think the police are better unarmed for the day-to-day policing which makes up the vast majority of the work. While it seems like a simple thing to give all police guns, the reality is that not all police are going to be skilled or even capable with firearms. Also, being armed means you force the police to shoot more often - they cannot risk physical interactions lest they be overpowered and disarmed.

    The highly trained police marksmen are often in close proximity to respond to any incident and have an incredible record when it comes to effectiveness. I think one year saw them fire 34 shots and 33 of them hit their intended target. US police fire that many shots in a single incident - cases where police kill more people than the gunman.

    What is needed is not waiting until attackers are on the street. Once again, in London, the attackers weren't a surprise - even their friends had reported them and nothing had been done. Round these people up and intern them and then sort out who is going to be deported, who is going to be incarcerated and who is going to be executed.

    If it does get to being an incident on the streets I hope the police have shoot to kill orders.

  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill

    Cofty and Simon,

    A little off topic, perhaps, but I think still worth stating; your remarks about armed police are quite correct.

    This was confirmed a few years ago by a former firearms instructor at the Police Training Academy, who readily volunteered that not all police have the necessary skills to be armed (as in the UK, the police in this country - New Zealand - are also largely unarmed).

    Furthermore, those police trained to use firearms are taught to aim for the body trunk, which is most likely to result in a fatal wound. The consensus amongst all that have ever fired a hand gun (myself included) is that you are doing quite well to even hit the target at all, let alone be selective about whereabouts on the target the bullet is going to land. You definitely aim for "the centre of the biggest piece that you can see" if you expect any success! As for the idea of trying to "shoot to wound" with a high-powered weapon; if you have ever witnessed the destruction that a slug from such a weapon does to an animal, you would quickly shed yourself of such impractical ideas (again, pretty much the consensus amongst hunters).

    "Shooting to wound" might work in a cowboy movie - in which the victim is a paid actor - but that is about all!

    Contrary to what some believe, the police are not instructed to shoot to wound - and that was from the Commissioner for the Police Service in the Australian State of Victoria (and I don't believe it to be any different in the UK or elsewhere).

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