Elder Mentioning an "Apostate Problem"

by Simon Templar 57 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Finkelstein

    Religious delusion

    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A religious delusion is any delusion involving religious themes or subject matter.[1][2] Though a few psychologists have characterized all or nearly all religion as delusion,[1][3] others focus solely on a denial of any spiritual cause of symptoms exhibited by a patient and look for other answers relating to a chemical imbalance in the brain, although there is actually no evidence of pathology in any mental illnesses which means a diagnosis is made purely on opinions of professionals based on symptoms the person exhibits.


    Individuals experiencing religious delusions are preoccupied with religious subjects that are not within the expected beliefs for an individual's background, including culture, education, and known experiences of religion. These preoccupations are incongruous with the mood of the subject. Falling within the definition also are delusions arising in psychotic depression; however, these must present within a major depressive episode and be congruous with mood.[4]

    Researchers in a 2000 study found religious delusions to be unrelated to any specific set of diagnostic criteria, but correlated with demographic criteria, primarily age.[5] In a comparative study sampling 313 patients, those with religious delusion were found to be aged older, and had been placed on a drug regime or started a treatment programme at an earlier stage. In the context of presentation, their global functioning was found to be worse than another group of patients without religious delusions. The first group also scored higher on the Scale for the Assessment of Positive Symptoms (SAPS),[6] had a greater total on the Brief Psychiatric Rating Scale (BPRS),[7] and were treated with a higher mean number of neuroleptic medications of differing types during their hospitalization.[5]

    Religious delusion was found in 2009 to strongly correlate with "temporolimbic instability".[8] This is a condition where irregularities in the brain's limbic system may present as symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia.[9]

    In a 2010 study, Swiss psychiatrists found religious delusions with themes of spiritual persecution by malevolent spirit-entities, control exerted over the person by spirit-entities, delusional experience of sin and guilt, or delusions of grandeur.[10]

    Religious delusions have generally been found to be less stressful than other types of delusion.[5] A study found adherents to new religious movements to have similar delusionary cognition, as rated by the Delusions Inventory, to a psychotic group, although the former reported feeling less distressed by their experiences than the latter.[11]

  • Fencing
    The Borg is really going to have to do something here the way the number of partakers keeps ever increasing.

    They've been doing something for the past several years. First step was back in 2007 when they made the "sealing" open-ended, to try and explain away why the numbers weren't dropping. Next step was openly calling into question the mental state of new partakers - which they continue to do. Third step was detaching the "Faithful & Discreet Slave" from the Anointed Remnant, so that the rising number of partakers wouldn't be able to make any claims of authority in competition with the GB.

    The next step will be to officially say that the 144,000 is a symbolic number. When that happens, all the problems with the rising partaker numbers go away.

    Everything points to that happening relatively soon. Especially with the more recent statements that they're backing away from all the types and anti-types nonsense, showing a willingness to admit that just maybe not every scripture in the bible has some secret symbolic hidden meaning that only they understand. They just had to spend years setting everything up ahead of time, because it would be a major doctrinal change - quite possibly the biggest they've had in 80 years. If they just did it all at once, there'd be huge problems, especially with the older ones.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim
    I just cant see the Borg shifting to a figurative understanding of 144,000. Without some major chism within the Organization which could shake it to the core.
  • steve2

    It would be perilous for JW organization to advance a figurative view of the 144,000. What happens to their view of two classes and the enormous focus on paradise earth? What about the mountainous criticism of the churches of Christendom heralding heaven as the hope? JW's exclusive and literal take on the faithful and discreet slave is based on the view that the heavenly class is different from the great crowd.

    The house of cards would collapse under the weight of such a major change . That said, it was Rutherford who introduced the two classes - Russell's view was more conventional .

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    What Steve said precisely. That was a home run swing.

    Exactly nailed. There have always been 2 classes!!! 2 always!!!!

    The Heavenly Class the little flock.

    The Earthly Class the great crowd.

    This is what the entire JW doctrine is centred around. For at least a century now. Such a doctrinal change could create a paradox and collapse from the inside out.

  • Sugar Shane
    Sugar Shane

    Just slightly off-topic, but what would the ELDubs do if, as a NON-JW, I were to partake of the grapejuice at their 'Memorial?'

    They couldn't do a damn thing, could they? It's an open event, where the public is encouraged to attend, so I'm sure it happens from time-to-time.

    What if I had family in? Would a wife or sibling who is JW get disciplined for letting such 'worldly' dip-sh!t partake?

    My own interpretation would be that Jesus said, "do this in remeberance of me." He didn't single out anyone, as far as I can tell. Furthermore, in Matthew 26, Jesus says, "Do this, ALL of you," (not SOME of you).

    Anyway, I figure there would be a hushed silence, followed by some whispering and clearing of throats. A bit like adults reacting to a toddler standing up and saying "aw, f*ck."

    What say you?

  • TipsyMangoTea
    Sugar Shane Dude, your idea needs to be a thing this year. Maybe family members of awakened/former Witnesses can attend the Memorial of other congregations so it wouldn't look suspicious.
  • Hisclarkness
    For those who have been out for a while, there is a growing number of friends within the organization who understand that to be Christian is to be anointed and that's why the number of partakers continues to rise. These are not mentally unstable ones. The GB knows this too. It's truly a sad state for people to be labeled as apostates by their own spiritual brothers and sisters for simply joining onto Christ. This house that is truly divided against itself cannot stand for much longer.
  • TheListener

    Why couldn't the GB just say the number is figurative but there are still two classes and only God knows who is heavenly bound and who is not.

    They can still say the figurative number indicates a smaller amount and not all dubs will be selected by God for the heavenly calling. As long as the number of partakers stayed relatively low compared to overall publisher numbers everyone would buy it. If the partaking numbers got out of hand they could have new light that all partake but still only a small number go to heaven. Just by separating partaking from automatic heavenly hope they could solve the issue (which they already do anyway by calling most partakers mentally unstable every year).

  • stuckinarut2
    Shhh The Listener....don't give them ideas....

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