Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?

by Disillusioned JW 53 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Abraham1, that is an interesting translation you state of "sea-level rise" but I don't see that sense in any of the Bible's I have, except in the sense of the temporary rise of the sea caused by surges in the waves. The sense I get is that of a very turbulent sea storm with a surges in the waves, and possibly even a tsunami.

    The latter part of Luke 21:25 in various functional equivalence, idiomatic, and free ('paraphrase') translations (and one literal translation) are the following.

    - Revised English Bible says "roar and surge of the sea".

    - Today's New International Version says "roaring and tossing of the sea".

    - Revised Standard Version and New Revised Standard Version say "roaring of the sea and the waves". The New American Standard Bible--Updated Edition also says that.

    - Holman Christian Standard Bible (of 2003) says "roaring sea and waves".

    - The Twentieth Century New Testament (Revised Edition of 1904) says "roar of the sea and the surge".

    - The Complete Bible - an American Translation says "roar of the sea and the waves".

    - New Living Translation (of 1996) says "roaring seas and strange tides".

    - The New Testament In Modern Speech (Fifth Edition, 1929) by Weymouth says "roaring of the sea and its billows".

    To me any recent translation saying 'sea level rise' is forcing a meaning into the verse, in order to make it appear to predict the rising sea levels detected by modern-day scientists.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    No surprise there. Dr. Josef Mengele I mean Faux-Xi, has had two years since the start of the planned "pandemic" to engineer new strains that will be more successful in the coming global depopulation agenda. Just wait until one that is 50% more fatal than the ones they have already engineered shows up.


    EXACTLY!

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?

    No. That is a done deal.

  • mickbobcat
    mickbobcat

    Yep you nailed it, Armageddon is almost here.

  • Abraham1
    Abraham1

    Disillusioned JW,

    "Tossing of the sea" is the correct translation because that is that the interlinear says. When you toss a coin, it is all about a vertical rise of the coin from your palm to the height of your choice.

    This predicted "tossing of the sea" [which is now softly worded as "sea-level rise"] is to happen before "Great Tribulation" which is already underway from 2020, and "Great Tribulation" will last over a decade because Last Generation is of 120 years.*

    Why many Bible translators missed this is not important because they have also deliberately made wrong translations. For example, only KJV, Duay and Wycliffe got rightly Romans 14:17. NW translation of JWs made deliberate mistake in Mathew 25:46 where they translated as "eternal cutting off" which no other translations have done it. (https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5915507227099136/new-world-translation-much-different-other-translations.)

    Interestingly, secular person gained the victory over JWs. John Hogue published a book in 2016 implying great tribulation would start from 2020 because the very title of his book was: "

    The Roaring 2020s: Decade of Destruction and Transformation

    http://www.hogueprophecy.com/predictions-2016-the-expanded-donors-only-edition/

    People will readily accept such a message because they are desperate as the South Korea is now planning to do. (https://www.globalconstructionreview.com/south-korea-plans-to-host-worlds-first-floating-city-by-2025/) JWs are struck in the literal reading of "seventy years" exile foretold for the Jews. Yet Jews began returning after fifty years, state all of Jewish documents.

    *That means 70 years is like 120-year lifespan foretold for humans. (Genesis 6:3) Some will live less or more than 120 years. Moses lived 120 years (Deuteronomy 34:1-12), the full years of what God decreed as duration of one generation. (Genesis 6:3) That means First World war started in 1914 + 120 = 2034, which means “Last Days” or Last Generation would last till 2034. During this period, "sea-level rise" would be something about which people will feel like "fainting out of fear."

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Disillusioned, here's my take on Luke 21 (pp. 135,136):

    "This state of affairs prepares the way for the breaking of the sixth seal. Jesus continues: “Also, there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations, not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and [its] agitation, while men become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken” (Luke 21:25, 26; cf. Rev. 6:12-17).

    "On the one hand, Jesus might here be referring to the inevitable earth changes, caused by a looming pole shift: “The sky vanished like a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place” (Rev. 6:14 ESV). No doubt this will result in the abnormal heaving and flooding of the literal sea [“anxious over the roaring of the sea and the surging waves” NET; or “strange tides” NLT].

    "On the other hand, he might be pointing to the agitated sea of humanity: “But the wicked are like the sea that is being tossed, when it is unable to calm down, the waters of which keep tossing up seaweed and mire. There is no peace, my God has said, for the wicked ones” (Is. 57:20, 21; cf. Dan. 7:2, 3; Rev. 13:1; 17:15). Undoubtedly, the COVID-19 pandemic would be causing great agitation of the masses, dissatisfied with their governments’ handling of the resulting medical and economic crisis."

  • road to nowhere
    road to nowhere

    NO

    Every end time religion sees the latest things as proof. If you consider that these things are supposed to be greater than ever before we are not even close

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    But Abraham1, the tossing of a coin (such as to flip it) doesn't result on the coin staying up for years (or even minutes) [unless it lands on something above the hand which tossed it]. The coin falls back down within a few seconds. Likewise when sea water is tossed up due to agitation of the sea it is back down within seconds. When the sea water is pushed up (instead of being thrown up) due to agitation of the water below (such as by an earth quake) or even due to strong winds it is back down within hours. The sea rise was only very brief and the rise was only in one relatively small part of the planet, not upon the entire surface of all of the oceans.

    The Bible verse is clearly referring to such a brief temporary rise in sea waves, not water levels staying up for years. In contrast when the scientists speak of sea level rise (such as that caused by glaciers melting and global warming expanding the volume of water in the seas and oceans) they are talking about the increased height lasting for decades of the entire surface of all of the oceans and in some cases (such as in the geologic past) lasting for thousands of years.

    Are you also saying the "Great Tribulation" already began, in the year 2020 CE? I agree that the world currently has major problems, some of which coincide with what Revelation describes, but I don't see them as being supernaturally induced nor an indication that we are now in the biblical "Great Tribulation", but thanks for sharing your thoughts.

  • Konagirl
    Konagirl

    but I am asking this question because recent events are starting to seem (to me) to fit well the description of some prophecies in the Bible.

    If we are to believe that the actual events happening in the world are a sign of the Great Tribulation, then perhaps Watchtower’s lie of 1914 has become successfully embedded into our being. I’m not saying that stuff isn’t happening. I don’t walk around believing that all is right in the world when it’s not, but I keep in mind, Jesus’ words:

    “Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.” Luke 17:20,21

    He’s telling us that the literal earthquakes, the famine, and the wars between nations mentioned in Matt 24 are not the signs we are to look for. (Matt 16:1-3; Luke 12:54-56) It is similar to his account of the “yeast/leaven of the Pharisees”. His disciples thought he was talking about literal bread, when it was the teachings he was warning them of. ( John 16:6,11,12; 6:35)

    If you believe it’s possible to be deceived, then you must believe that evil is behind it.

    If we focus only on the literal, and forget the words of Jesus in Luke 17:20,21, someone is behind the curtain pulling our strings. We have been deceived. (1 Pet 2:1-3; 1 Tim 4:1) The Wt. interprets the signs Jesus gave his disciples in Matt. 24 as “pains of distress”. Before these signs are to occur, they say the kingdom was “born” in 1914. It is then followed with these “pains of distress”. The clearer translation for Matt 24:8 tells us that these symbolic signs are “birth pains”, and birth pains naturally come before birth, – the birth of the Kingdom of God.

    Pretty twisted, isn’t it!

    “tribulation”

    “birth pains”

    “the kingdom is within you”

    “it does not come with observation”

    Ask any woman who has given birth, and she will tell you that much of the Greek definition for “tribulation” can apply to birth - a pressing, pressing together, oppression, affliction, distress. Who’s giving “birth” to the Kingdom under severe tribulation, which is also a sifting, a sorting out of what is truth and what is a lie? (Luke 22:31) It is an analogy that is used in many places in the scriptures.

    "For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.” Rom 8:22-24

    The promised covenant signified by a woman (Gal 4:23,24,26), is in “labor” in Rev 12:1,2.

    At this point, you probably don’t believe there are genuine anointed under the New Covenant, in the organization. Well, this is the same organization that has taken captive (Col 2:8; Rev 13:10) and deceived a spiritual people (“Israel”) into believing they must look at the world of literal events, instead of focusing on their own heart. (Matt 24:24,25) Truth or lies, they have to decide. (Joel 3:14) If they decide they are the victims of deceit by false prophets, and do something about it by their “testimony” to Christ’s words such as those above, they will fulfill these additional signs that Jesus and the scriptures tell us would occur – Luke 12:51-53; Mark 10:29,30; Matt 5:11,12; 10:17-19; John 16:2; Heb 13:13; Rev 13:15; 12:11

    This happens in the opposite order than what the Wt. says. The anointed and those with them fulfill these signs as they are exiting the door of a judicial committee, leading to their exodus from the organization (another Sodom, another Egypt, Rev 11:8).

    Who doesn’t experience internal “earthquakes” when we find out that what we’ve believed for years, is not “the truth”? When we realize it isn’t truth, we then perceive the spiritual “famine” that exists in the organization. (Ezek 5:16; Amos 8:11; Mal 2:7-9; Rev 18:8) Nations rising against nations? The anointed are “kings” from all nations. (1 Pet 2:9; Rev 5:9,10) I wonder sometimes just how many anointed ones have been disfellowshipped, since it became the thing to do. Why does the elder body label one as “apostate”, if not because of a verbal conflict that happens over what is true, and what is a lie.

    If we read through the signs of Matt 24, it mentions the word, “deceive” in the NKJV, four times. It also mentions “false prophets” twice, “false christs” once. They deceive the “elect”/anointed. (Matt 24:24,25) A “wicked slave”, and its partners “drunk” on its teachings (elder body), “beats” down his fellow servants. This gives more evidence that the “kings” belonging to Christ, are at war with one another. (1 Pet 2:5,9; Rev 1:1,5; 13:5-7;16:13-16) Ray Franz, whom most all of us have heard of, is just one example of an anointed one fighting in this war.

    “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ, 6 and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.” 2 Cor 10:3-6

    One man, Jesus Christ, stated that the Kingdom will not come with observation (the Greek word means, “ocular evidence”); yet millions of people throughout the world will tell us otherwise, and the show goes on just as people prefer to believe. It’s as if they are saying, “see there!”. (Luke 17:21) As scripture says, “the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one”. 1 John 5:19

  • lastmanstanding
    lastmanstanding

    There's as many scripture twistings in this thread as in the watchtower rag.

    The wars and natural event described in the Olivet Discourse, Mt 24, Lu 21, Mark 13 are normal things, and it was in reference to the Jews in the first century that Jesus was speaking to. The things Jesus talked about were not a "sign" but rather an 'anti-sign', things to be ignored.

    The actual sign of the Son of Man is the darkening of the sky in its entirety. Literally. Black sky. As if it was "rolled up".

    It's gonna get your attention like the MC turning off the lights at your wedding to get everyone to shut up.

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