Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?

by Disillusioned JW 63 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Vanderhoven7


    The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction:

    18 “When therefore you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not in the holy place (let him who reads understand), that is to say, when you see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.”
    “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let him who is on the housetop not go down to take out things that are in his house, and let him who is in the field (countryside) not return back to take his cloak.”
    20 “For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
    21 “But woe to those who are with child and to those who are breast feeding in those days!”
    22 And pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on a Sabbath,
    23 “For then will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the creation which God created, until now, no, nor ever shall be, for there will be great distress on the land, and wrath to this people.” 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    CONCLUSION: The great tribulation had to be a one-time,non-repeatable event in hisory; a fairly local event affecting the Jews in and around Jerusalem and leading to their death or dispersion among the nations. Jesus provided the Sign to Flee and escape Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction: Matthew 24: 18-23 The plight of the Jews who didn't heed Jesus' instruction to flee is aptly described in Luke 21: 21-24.

  • lastmanstanding

    Vander, very good. However, that said, Jesus did go on to answer the second question that pertains to the coming of the Son of Man. I believe it happens at Mt 24:17 and Jesus carefully pivots the discussion.

  • Vidqun

    Vanderhoven, another option is a dual message, the prophecy having a double meaning and fulfillment. Most famous of these must be the composite sign of Jesus’ end time prophecy, which deals with the conclusion of the Jewish system, yet corresponds to his parousia at the conclusion of the present system (cf. Matt. 24, 25; Mark 13; Luke 21). Dual implementation is also indicated when one encounters the phrase “Day of the LORD” (or “Day of Jehovah”) incorporated in the text. The primary fulfillment of the passage is usually localized and time dependent, often taking place in the time of the prophet. But when above phrase crops up, it frequently refers to the ultimate “Day of the LORD,” marking the end of the age (cf. Matt. 24:3 ESV). Whenever the Hebrew noun for “land” (Hebr. אֶ֫רֶץ) is present, the alternative translation is “earth,” which indicates a universal judgment. Earth in such a case would refer to its human inhabitants (cf. Gen. 11:1). This would then point to a secondary fulfillment. E.g. Is. 2:12, 17, 21; 13:9, 11; 34:1-4; Jer. 25:29-33.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Thanks for responding Lastmanstanding and Vidqun

    Hard for me to see a dual fulfillment both because of the phrase "never shall be" (Mt.24:23) and the fact that the Jews are not scheduled to be dispersed again among the nations at His parousia or second coming. Jesus separates the two judgments, one against Jerusalem (Mt.24:1-35) and world judgment (Mt.24:36-end)

    Jesus explained his own generation would see the sign and his disciples would know exactly when to flee. There will be no fleeing his parousia (second coming); there will be no escaping it; no need to pray that it not occur in winter or on a Sabbath day. The temple will not be destroyed again. No one will be able to anticipate the timing; it will take place in normal times, with people working at their jobs, marrying and being given in marriage; it will be a total surprise, an event one should be ready for at all times...precisely because there will be no signs of his second coming (parousia).

  • lastmanstanding

    Vander, I went and looked, it's been awhile. Thus begins Jesus' answer to the second question "and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

    Matthew 24:23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

    • This describes perfectly organizations such as Watchtower. They claim their 'works' are signs and they try to deceive even those who are chosen.

    26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

    • Again, Watchtower has actually taught this as doctrine. He is "invisible" in the "wilderness" and an "inner room(s).

    27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

    • Jesus contrasts the false teachings with the truth concerning His coming. Instead of a secret, invisible, "inner room" in the "wilderness", it will be so intense such that nobody will miss it, it will be unmistakable.

    28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

    • The gathering of the elect or chosen explained in the context of the Second Coming.

    29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

    “‘the sun will be darkened,
    and the moon will not give its light;
    the stars will fall from the sky,
    and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’[b]

    30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

    • Jesus will black out the sky, He will turn out the lights. See if mankind can ignore it.
    • Indeed it must be this way, as the Father gives His son due glory, and all Earth must know.
  • Vanderhoven7

    Hi Lastmanstanding,

    26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
    • Again, Watchtower has actually taught this as doctrine. He is "invisible" in the "wilderness" and an "inner room(s).
    27 "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." Jesus contrasts the false teachings with the truth concerning His coming. Instead of a secret, invisible, "inner room" in the "wilderness", it will be so intense such that nobody will miss it, it will be unmistakable.

    Yes, it will be. I believe Jesus is here separating his physical coming (parousia) to earth from the destruction of Jerusalem. He was saying, don't expect me to come to defend Jerusalem during the siege and onslaught; my actual coming to earth will not be a secret; that coming will be obvious worldwide; no secret presence anywhere.

    I think it helps to keep the time text {verse 34} in mind. all these things were to happen to Christ's generation; not both generations. I see Matthew 24:1-35 fulfilled in century one.

    Certainly the most difficult verses to attach to the destruction of Jerusalem are verses 29-31 which I would like to deal with shortly.

  • Vanderhoven7

    The following is an excerpt from The Watchtower of May 1, 1999 (p. 11,12)which contains some elements of sound interpretation.

    In the years leading up to 66 C.E., Christians would have seen many of the preliminary elements of the composite sign being fulfilled-wars, famines, even an extensive preaching of the good news of the Kingdom. (Acts 11:28; Colossians 1:23) When, though, would the end come? What did Jesus mean when he said: 'This generation [Greek,'] will not pass away'? Jesus had often called the contemporaneous mass of opposing Jews, including religious leaders, 'a wicked, adulterous generation.' (Matthew 11:16; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36) So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time.

    Rather, Jesus had in mind the opposing Jews back then who would experience the fulfillment of the sign he gave. Regarding the reference to "this generation" at Luke 21:32, Professor Joel B. Green notes: "In the Third Gospel, 'this generation' (and related phrases) has regularly signified a category of people who are resistant to the purpose of God. . . . [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose." *
    The wicked generation of Jewish opposers who could observe the sign being fulfilled would also experience the end. (Matthew 24:6, 13, 14) And that they did! In 70 C.E., the Roman army returned, led by Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian. The suffering of the Jews who were again bottled up in the city is almost beyond belief." Eyewitness Flavius Josephus reports that by the time the Romans demolished the city, about 1,100,000 Jews had died and some 100,000 were taken captive, most of those soon to perish horribly from starvation or in Roman theaters. Truly, the tribulation of 66-70 C.E. was the greatest that Jerusalem and the Jewish system had ever experienced or would ever experience. How different the outcome was for Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic warning and had left Jerusalem after the departure of the Roman armies in 66 C.E.! "

    The article then goes on to blow it saying there is a dual and broader fulfillment of Matthew 24 verses 1-35.

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    If a God didnt bring an end the world after the horrors of ww2, when the world was a broken, chaotic mess, why would he bother with a global pandemic that by historic standards, is fairly mild, when it comes to death toll?

  • BluesBrother

    Sometimes I can watch the news and Can’t help thinking, “ this world is on the brink” ……But I recognise that I have been conditioned to think that way by an upbringing within the WTS.

    From what I gather , men have always thought that their own time period “must be the one” because of the things happening. Certainly, the more that you learn of the past and our social history, the more you learn just how hard it was to live then .They had different problems,often, but equally difficult or worse.

    Scientists predict terrible things sometimes, but mankind has always been useless at foretelling the future, so I curb my fears and hope for the best.

  • Vanderhoven7

    Sound reasoning BluesBrother!

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