Vander.
Im sure the disciples on the mount that day knew all that nonsense from Clark.
Rubbish.
Is Bible prophecy now starting to come true regarding the prelude to the great tribulation?
by Disillusioned JW 63 Replies latest watchtower bible
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lastmanstanding
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Disillusioned JW
Vanderhoven7, the quote you made of Adam Clarke regarding a spiritualized meaning of the sun and moon is the same (or very nearly so) as what the WT teaches. That tells me the WT got its ideas on that matter from Adam Clarke's commentary and/or other pre-1870 Christian commentaries.
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Vanderhoven7
Hi Disillusioned,
Could be...but the difference is that Clarke applies these to the destruction of Jerusalem.
This thread is about the great tribulation which the Watchtower has misapplied and used to control its adherents for decades.
By reading the synoptics on the subject, I don't see how anyone can legitimately come up this being a future event.
THE GREAT TRIBULATION
The synoptics support that the great tribulation Jesus spoke about would be an unrepeatable local event.
Matthew 24:15-21 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction.
15. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
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Mark 13:14-19 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction:
14. But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15 And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16 And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
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Luke 21:20-24 The Sign to Flee Jerusalem’s Tribulation & Destruction:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
According to Luke's gospel, the culmination of the great tribulation on Israel would find Jerusalem destroyed, many slaughtered and the survivors led away captive to all nations which happened in 70 AD and will not be repeated at or after Christ's Second coming.
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lastmanstanding
Vander
You and Clark are still full of rubbish here.
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peacefulpete
I have to say how sad that after so many opportunities to understand that some still cling to millennialist spins and doomsday interpretations. Simply put the first author of what we now call Mark 13, anticipated the troubled times he lived in would escalate into the war of God. It didn't happen, and just as the author Daniel and many apocalyptical writers of the time felt confusion and disappointment. Some gave up their dark fantasies but others found ways to keep the delusion alive. Subtle rewording of the "prophecy" and dualistic hidden meaning are standards responses to desperation.
Ask yourself objectively, what good is a prophecy that no none understands? To believers there are endless collections of would-be prophecies. How is this different than those of Nostradamus?
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JoenB75
Of course our civilisation will one day fall and things go back to the stone ages if God so desires. Right now the West seems 1914like hellbend on war with the monarch of Russia. They dont respect him and they think by provoking and humiliating him that he will somehow bend to them. I am pretty sure that will not happen. But I have to laugh when the WT these days promote the idea that the king of the North in Daniel is Russia. It resembles a modern typical lack of historical insights and perspective. Just ridiculous .
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JoenB75
Adam Clarke respected that Jesus spoke of catastrophes using the exaggerated language of the prophets of things that would happen in the timespan of the generation he spoke to
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peacefulpete
For me the world has nearly as one condemned the imperialist actions of a throwback autocracy and united scientific knowledge with unprecedented openness over the past 2 years. Both are strong evidence of improvement.
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Disillusioned JW
Two posts I made today (which I think were in this topic thread) about what the book of Revelation says will happen in the Great Tribulation, and that thus the GT is not in progress, seem to have been deleted. I wonder why. [I have an idea, but I am still very surprised.] The removal seems very unjust to me. People on this site write about and complain about right-wing conservative posts being removed from mainstream media/blog sites, but what about certain kinds of Bible based exposition posts or certain kinds of liberal posts being removed from right-wing conservative sites (even those run by atheists)?
Fortunately I have a copy of my two posts, thus I can post them on a different site if I wish or include in a book I might write about the Bible's teachings (perhaps in a pro-atheistic book disproving the Bible).
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Vanderhoven7
Has this been posted yet...like on another thread?
It must be true because it is narrated by Jeffrey Jackson.