Are you a Christian Who Accepts Evolution?

by cofty 85 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jp1692

  Cofty: Which is outrageously anti-scientific. It is literally impossible for evolution to happen that fast and contradicts everything we know about the history of life on earth.

  Well of course it is unscientific. But that is what many people believe nonetheless. I'm reporting, not supporting. (For the record and the sake of context, I am one nanometre shy of complete atheism.)
  

  NOTE: The many people that believe unscientific things would obviously not be among the "we" you are referring to in the above quoted comment.
  
  
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  jp1692

  Cofty: Why is this "the real question"?

  Fair enough. I suppose because the question of life's origin is the one that really hinges on whether or not there is a creator. The issue of organic, biological evolution per se, and the questions concerning it, do not necessarily threaten or contradict belief in creation by a divine being.

  As you observed Cofty, there are scientists--mainstream evolutionary biologists even--that are also Christians. (I don't happen to be one of them.)

  Again, I'm acknowledging that my previous comments may be taking the thread in a direction other than the one you originally intended. Sorry if that is the case.
  
  
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  cofty

  Not at all I think you raise an interesting point.

  While evolution can be reconciled with christian faith I agree that abiogenesis raises a more difficult theological challenge. I made a similar point in a thread a few months ago and basically got a lot of flack...
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  jp1692

  I'll have to take a look at that thread. I missed it before.
  
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  Diogenesister

  How can a Christian believe in evolution? What about the ransome sacrifice?They *have* to believe in a literal garden of Eden, original sin, to make that sacrifice worth anything at all.

  Not forgetting Jesus also spoke as if the flood were true.

  If they believe Genesis is purely allegorical, then why was Jesus sacrificed? Why was it required?

  I fully understand one can believe in God and evolution, but the sacrifice of a Jewish carpenter ? I believe this is why Islam is gaining popularity.
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  Ruby456

  Diongenesister the ransom sacrifice and ideas about transcendent ideals brings intelligence into the picture among other things.
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  cofty

  They *have* to believe in a literal garden of Eden, original sin, to make that sacrifice worth anything at all

  Christians do not believe that Jesus died to balance up the sins of Adam. They believe Jesus' death was the vicarious punishment for their own sins.
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  shepherdless

  Christians do not believe that Jesus died to balance up the sins of Adam. They believe Jesus' death was the vicarious punishment for their own sins.

  Exactly, at least amongst Catholics and many of the Protestant religions, and I think Orthodox as well. Hence the mantra often heard; "He died for your sins." (ie Your sins, not Adam's or Eve's sins.)

  I am not 100% certain, but I am fairly sure that the Catholics interpreted the ransom sacrifice as an atonement for our sins (not Adamic sin) well before the discovery of evolution.

  in answer to the original question, I am not a believer, but if I were to ask any of my Catholic relatives (there are lots; one of them is a priest) they would all accept evolution and other sciences as facts. The only exception is there are a few who think anthropogenic climate change is a conspiratorial hoax. All the Catholics I know were taught that Genesis should not be read literally. They think that the fact that God can create clever complicated scientific principles which in turn create the world and universe, and leave no evidentiary trace, just show (to them) how amazing God is.

  Interestingly, I think a lot of them would be troubled if you told them Exodus couldn't have happened either.
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  cofty

  Thank you shepherdless. I think this JW perversion of the Ransom doctrine might be a reason why they are so opposed to evolution and why it is still a problem for many ex-JWs.

  When I was an evangelical christian I wrote about the ransom here..
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  Londo111

  If I’m remembering the Photodrama right, what is ironic is that Russell was okay with “macroevolution”, all but for humans. Of course, he believed in seven 7000-year creative days totaling 49000 years. The thought that all land animals evolved in just 7000 years is just utterly ridiculous.