Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister

by cappytan 108 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Muddy Waters
    Muddy Waters

    Joe, I feel your anger and outrage. And am so sorry for what your family went through.

    This stuff from the WT cult is dangerous. Stupid, clueless WT, harming people over and over again, especially to people who need comfort the most!!

    I would be very interested in knowing what that Samaritan organization says about this video.

    The elder's don't even mention her husband and probably their friend, too. No happy memories to laugh and cry about (what happened to "mourn with those who mourn, weep with those who weep..."?) -- just stupid smarmy smiles and utter, utter cluelessness. No compassion for people, even for their dead friend, who probably had a 2 minute mention about his service record for the organization at his "memorial" talk.

    Onward to full cult control. Remember Job! Memorize a couple scriptures! Repeat some useless mantra. Pour on more guilt. Don't provide any practical help or aid.

    And "thank you, Jehovah!" - she has cookies! - even if she is feeling like she's losing her mind. Those two scriptures and that mantra should really help her. And if she does happen to succumb to "sin" and commit suicide, well, at least the elder's did all they could. Too bad she died unfaithful and did not keep integrity after all. That ole Satan has claimed another one....

    I feel your anger, Joe, and outrage. This is totally irresponsible "shepherding" and "taking care of the flock."

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    Muddy Waters: Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

    Well, I had a quick response from my Samaritan contact. She is far more polite and diplomatic than me (as you might expect).

    1. This is not an approach she would take.

    2. Being 'talked down to' by seniors/elders may not help.

    3. Cautioning about this being wrong or a 'sin' may not help either.

    (I said she was diplomatic!)

    She mentioned in passing going to the funeral many years ago of a fellow Samaritan who was a JW for the sake of his wife. It was so bad she wanted to leave.

    She agreed that it may be worth passing this video on to Samaritans HQ, so that's my next step.

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    I am an integrity keeper, I am an integrity keeper.

    In the real world, WTF is an 'integrity keeper? If I saw someone walking down the street chanting this mantra I would think that they were mentally deranged.

    If this cult were not so dangerous it would be laughable. Correction, it IS laughable, but I have to stop and think sometimes of the damage it has done and is still doing.

  • Muddy Waters
    Muddy Waters

    Thank you, Joe. And yes, I can read between the lines of "diplomacy". I hear your Samaritan friend saying, basically:

    1). As a professional, there is no way in hell she would ever use such an approach!

    2). These elders are basically " blaming the victim" and making her feel worse by being condescending, know-it-all, and superior -- NOT helpful!! - (If someone says, "You're NOT HELPING!", what do they mean? I would take this to mean that they are saying, "You are being harmful!")

    3). Making her feel even more burdened and guilty by making these extreme feelings of grief be a "sin" -- NOT helpful! Meaning again, that they are being HARMFUL!

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    Sorry, I'm getting a bit vitriolic about this now.

    I've just re-read this from the top of the thread:

    Use Insight When Comforting Others: (15 min.) Discussion. Play the video that the elders viewed at a recent Kingdom Ministry School. Then invite comments on how the two brothers were a good example of how to give encouragement when someone expresses anguish over the death of a loved one.

    'A good example'? A pair of f**kwit retards is what they are. I can only hope that 'Mary' is a JW trusted to play this character and that her experience in this charade has led her to question this cult. Is she here yet?

  • Muddy Waters
    Muddy Waters

    Oh, Joe, I wish you could see the original elder's version! The young (most likely "inexperienced") elder who feels compassion for Mary, who quickly took her aside into another room (though being alone with her! Gasp!) and who even touched her arm (oh no!! More gasp!) and who showed more compassion than the other two idiot drones, was the elder who was in the wrong.

    After all, according to JW indoctrination, (though this is never said in the elder's version) now that she is newly single, and so emotional to boot, this makes her very dangerous in a Jezebel/harlot sort of way. She probably can't wait to commit fornication due to her lonliness and extreme emotions, being such a weak, fragile female vessel.

    The brothers must continually be on guard -- these "desirable" men, these glorious ones, these strong, experienced fountains of wisdom, these stars in Jesus' right hand -- who can't be alone with a sister, even in a little room at the Kingdom Hall, while people are right outside the door, for even a single moment.

    They must ever be on the lookout for SIN - and emotions all out of hand like this - are simply another matter to be on guard against.

    Gah, I can't keep on with this shit.

  • Powermetal4ever

    I feel like I want to throw up when I see this

  • AudeSapere

    I've seen this video three times now. And it's bothering me. Aside from the other comments here, it just struck me now how much better this scene could have played out if the elders had even just thought to do something for her - other than read a few tired-old scriptures.

    I was in a counselling session (dealing with JW parent issues and suicide ideations) when my paid therapist noticed that one of the buttons on my jacket was dangling. She offered to sew it back on for me. I declined. But she insisted.

    She had me keep talking about whatever it was we were talking about in the session and she told me to just ignore what she was doing with the needle and thread and button.

    She wanted me to know what it was like to have someone take care of my very simple need. It felt strange. But was powerfully comforting.

    So while it was nice for the elders to visit 'Mary', how much more powerful and supportive would it have been if they showed up with some soup to share with her instead of expecting her to serve THEM?

    Or coffee, or a sandwich.

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    Muddy Waters:

    Thanks for that. I wasn't aware that there was another version. Perhaps my earlier facetious comment that this was a prologue to a porno film wasn't so far off. I can, of course, see that Bro Grinning Sleazeball and his retard sidekick must be so attractive to women that they are hard to resist. I don't want to visualise Bro GS as he drools over a spit roast.

    Do JWs have rules as to when comely widows become fair game?

    Now I'm becoming facetious so I'll stop before I say something I regret.

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy


    Excellent points, but I'd add these:

    1. Put off the meeting til 1.30? She needs to talk NOW. Putting her under immense pressure for a future appointment.

    2. At her home? Nice place, bet she ran herself ragged with the hoover and baking biscuits (cookies). Not good.

    3. She's still dressed up and made up from the KH meeting. (How many suicidal women take the trouble to dress up/make up when they're in the pits?)

    My real life experience of desperate suicidal people:

    1. They need talking to NOW, right NOW, or f**k off

    2. Wherever and whenever we are

    3. In pyjamas/underwear/whatever, snot wiped on sleeve, tears have made mascara run, total disregard for personal appearance and surroundings.

    That's the reality of the world I live in and the people I met. And they need some personal contact, a hug or a touch or whatever. That's the way we are, us humans.

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