Leaked Elder's Video: How to deal with a suicidal sister

by cappytan 108 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Xanthippe

    'Wild irrational thoughts'! Wanting to die is perfectly normal when your husband dies which these idiots would know if they had any training at all in therapy. But of course they don't so why the hell are they doing it! Telling her to chant what was it 'I AM AN INTEGRITY KEEPER' over and over when she felt suicidal. Jesus H Christ. Is that it? Then they compare suicidal thoughts with immoral thoughts. Just dismiss them from your mind and read the Psalms! I couldn't take more than eight minutes of that.

    She said she was tired out. She said she'd had problems with the house. Why didn't they listen. When your husband dies the paperwork and financial issues seem endless. Some women lose their homes. Add to that children that not only need caring for but also need help to get through the grief of losing their father. After a year of that I was exhausted. What she really needs, apart from professional counselling, is a rest from meetings, FS and all the other stuff they demand you do no matter how you feel. How about some practical help maintaining her home or garden?

  • blondie

    Elders probably figure it is the responsibility of her jw family to help her with the financial problems. Maybe one out of 10 elders have the empathy to give true help. I remember one elder who did not get any support from the other elders helping a suicidal sister, an ongoing problem with depression raising 2 children on her own. This elder would take an MS and have him sit in eyeshot but out of earshot......sad, right? But no suggestion she go to a doctor. They other elders even threatened this elder if he suggested it. Eventually, she succeeded in her quest. Everyone at the congregation was appalled and said she wouldn't be resurrected because she murdered herself, although murdering someone else doesn't deny the murderer a resurrection. Her children were parceled off to jw families because grandma couldn't handle it. The elder........he was depressed for some time and then he started saying things that "innocently" highlighted their flaws. Eventually he sold his business and moved far away, started a new business, and is "inactive." No one in that area even knows he and his wife were ever jws.

    In some jw congregations there seems to be more enlightenment but not from on high. 2 jws from my high school days had a son that was having problems but no doctor suggested. Their son went on a sex spree and almost killed himself, then a doctor. He was bipolar and married so was found guilty of adultery. Sexual escapades is a sign of being bipolar with other sign. He was df'd, his wife divorced him, and he tried to stay medicated. Eventually he could not take the shunning at the KH, the shame of his illness, that he was not strong enough spiritually, and stayed home (Oy!) alone while his parents went to the meeting, got in the car in turned it on and CO killed him. This time his parents said they would have an open funeral at a community center, that the uncle (elder from another congregation) would give a talk on mental illness and practical ways that depressed people can be helped. That rattled at lot of jws and this time no talk of no resurrection but more talk about going to a doctor. I had brought business cards of clinic in that area and handed them out to get more info. I saw jws talking to df'd jws that day, who knows maybe it continues.



    Shunning as practiced by high-control groups like Scientology, LDS, and JWs, never took place in Xian times.

    So your argument must be, "Sometimes it's beneficial to ignore the biblical pattern and turn to legalistic practices and traditions of men."

    Hmmm.... Now where have heard about persons of little spiritual vision, who began making their own rules to judge others? They also felt they were above the "deviants" of society. Well, it will come to me sooner or later? Maybe you remember the account in the Bible?



    The Samaritans need to have this video, then THE WORLD.


  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    cofty and fastjehu:

    Thanks for that. I have forwarded the video to a contact who is a very active 'Samaritan' and asked for her thoughts. I think it should be forwarded to other interested parties and will do so.

    Another thought strikes me: just like child and other abuse, the JWs are paranoid about keeping these problems '''in house' - and yet there is NO qualified (or, it seems to me, unqualified yet empathetic) help or advice available.


  • cappytan

    I would suggest downloading the video instead of sharing this link with others outside of the exJW world. WT could issue a DMCA takedown notice any day now.

    If you need a download link, feel free to PM me.

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy
    Thanks. Sent you a PM.
  • Muddy Waters
    Muddy Waters

    I couldn't believe this video when it first came out -- is there a link to the original elder's version? It has a few more parts but this version keeps most of the stupidity and dangerousness of uneducated men posing as mental health counsellors.


    I think in the elder's version, there were two examples given on how to help this sister -- 1) WHAT NOT TO DO, and 2) the "correct" version of how to help this sister. (And to think, this is the "correct" version!!!)


    In the "What NOT To Do" part of the elder's video, they had a brother all by himself talking to Mary, at the Kingdom Hall. He even *touched* her by putting his hand reassuringly on her arm, and then, asked Mary to go into the little room off the main auditorium so they could talk (or maybe he touched her arm while they were alone in the little room together). Anyhow, THAT was the very very wrong & incorrect thing to do -- being **alone** with this grieving sister -- in a room off the main auditorium of the hall, even though it was right after the meeting, with people still talking & visiting each other in the kingdom hall.


    Also, in the original elder's version, there are some very hard and cold looks that Mary gives to "Brother Brown", I will call him. The older, smarmy smiling brother I will call "Brother Grey".

    You see a bit of this vibe between Mary and Brother Brown when he says he is going to give her "an assignment" - memorize two insipid bible verses. Did anybody else catch this bad vibe? It's like the sister herself cannot believe the terrible advice she is being given.

    I feel a really bad vibe between her and Brother Brown. She just looks at him really coldly and with a lot of disgust or anger. When she looks at Brother Grey, you can see she is trying hard to act her part to be upset, but Brother Brown gets a lot of cold, hard looks.

    I remember noticing this in the original elder's version of this. Does anybody have a link to that video?

  • Joe Grundy
    Joe Grundy

    "What she really needs, apart from professional counselling, is a rest from meetings, FS and all the other stuff they demand you do no matter how you feel."

    What she really needs is a friend is to hug her, tell her it's ok to keep crying and grieving her loss for as long as it takes, and to tell those f^^kwits to p^ss off.

  • Finkelstein

    Quite a stupid irresponsible idea of telling suicidal people to repeat a mental chat " I am an integrity keeper, I am an integrity keeper. it makes the assertion and provocates guilt

    You shouldn't commit suicide for it will tarnish the organization's image if you do in other words

    This would shock most practicing behavioral psychologists.

    Its just the same old game the WTS leaders try to imply that by reading the bible one can cure and be monumentally useful in absolving all human troubles and problems.

    ........and we need adherent readers and people within are association of sales representatives to show that into practice.

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