Bible comes alive if we look for meaning behind the symbols it uses

by Ireneus 52 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EverApostate
    EverApostate

    I really feel alive when I read these verses.

    Luke 14: 26: If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters — yes, even his own life — he cannot be My disciple.

    Luke 19: 27: And these enemies of mine, who were unwilling for me to rule over them, bring them here and slay them in front of me.

  • jp1692
    jp1692
    Ireneus: Whether such miracles did happen or not is not important.

    Actually, it does. That's kind of the point.

  • jp1692
    jp1692

    You are my friends if you do what I command you. - John 15:14 (CEB)

    Let the control-freakery begin!

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    The bible is alive------------with Hebrew Mythology! It was written by jews, about jews, and for jews! Not that I don't love jews, just telling it like it is.

    just saying!

  • doubtfull1799
    doubtfull1799

    I agree with you to a point that the only value to be found from the Bible is metaphorical, or I would suggest as a sociological study of mans struggle to understand the world and his place in it. As the most famous book of the western world it is indelibly entwined in our culture. Whether what it contains is true or not, inspired or not, it is part of our cultural heritage.

    However, how can you make the claim that it dishonours God? First you have to demonstrate that he exists. Secondly you would have to demonstrate what God actually wants/feels/command in order to contrast that with what the human writers of the Bible claimed he wants/feels/commands, in order to show there is a difference and that the Bile is this dishonouring him or misrepresenting him in some way.

  • humbled
    humbled
    1. what is the real meaning behind lot fucking his daughters?—blownaway

    That used to bother me too. I bought the Bible’s patriarchal version for years.

    Lot was too afraid to live in town after his wife turned to salt and his would-be sons -in-law got burnt up. So he moved into a cave with his two young women.

    The story goes that they got him liquored up, seduced him so they could have babies who later turned out to be delinquents, Ammon and Edom l think.

    Then I saw the story was the age old blame -the -victims- to -save -the- man’s honor scenario. Typical middle eastern patriarchal BS.

    Here’s what went down more than likely.

    . He got drunk .( What -he sent them to the package store? I guess he wasn’t that afraid of town.) Remember, these were very young marriageable girls isolated from other folks. So— probably more than once he got drunk— but not too drunk and ad often as that molested the girls til they had babies.

    The story of Lot stops after that.

    I am sure those girl’s could have found husbands as good as the ones they had lost if Lot weren’t such a wreck of a man.

    Their dad was just a bad Lot.

  • Ireneus
    Ireneus

    Hi dobutfull1799,

    You have asked some questions:

    1) How can you make the claim that it dishonours God?

    When thoughtless Bible writers imply God elevates one nation over others it dishonors Him because all are His children (Gen 1:27)

    2) First you have to demonstrate that he exists

    When I was born on earth, it was like I was entering a super luxurious hotel room filled with everything I need taking care of all my possible tastes [earth contains not only just for our sustenance, but also for our enjoyment—so many varieties of flowers, fruits—apple over 7500 ……]. Provisions made for sustenance and enjoyment are real, hence sustainer is equally real (just like, if robbery is real, robber is equally real). Such provisions were not made by my parents, nor by their parents …which would finally would reach God.

    3) Demonstrate what Godactually wants from humans

    God wants nothing from humans, has left man to work out what each one feels like doing. (Revelation 22:11; Mathew 12:35) reaping what each one sows.

  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    @Ireneous: "When I was born on earth, it was like I was entering a super luxurious hotel room filled with everything I need taking care of all my possible tastes...".

    But @Ireneous, what about those who were born in the more stricken parts of the globe? With that line of reasoning, they could definitively argue that God does NOT exist.

    I don't know... I've read your stuff before. Surely you have more conclusive reasons that aren't subject to geographic variables?

    Even the earth as a whole - our galaxy is on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy. And whether our globe burns out from the sun exhausting its supply of hydrogen (as billions of stars have in the past), or we perish upon impact with Andromeda first - where will that leave this five star Chateau Marmont you speak of?

  • Ireneus
    Ireneus

    You are asking “what about those who were born in the more stricken parts of the globe? With that line of reasoning, they could definitively argue that God does NOT exist.”

    When I said: "When I was born on earth, it was like I was entering a super luxurious hotel room filled with everything I need taking care of all my possible tastes..." I was referring to earth, not any part of earth where poverty exists. Earth is filled with provisions for all its inhabitants. Poverty exists because of a few people’s mentality of “dog in the manger.” “The world’s eight richest billionaires control the same wealth between them as the poorest half of the globe’s population.” (https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/16/worlds-eight-richest-people-have-same-wealth-as-poorest-50) Everyone is familiar with the beautiful principle found in the Bible: “The person who has two coats must share with the one who doesn't have any.” (Luke 3:11) Yet The rich will never understand why should they behave like a dog in the manger because entering and exiting empty-handed is the greatest truth that has no effect on people’s lives.

    Look at the Periodic Table which is the perfect symbol of order, and it is typical of the universe. God is the Ruler of the universe. What you fear (our galaxy is on a collision course with the Andromeda galaxy …etc) would never happen. There is a parallel history kept in the ancient religious writings in the form of teaching of Trinity found among Hindus, Christians, Egyptians, Babylonians, Greeks …etc. In the Trinity, three gods are shown to be engaged in action of creation, preservation and destruction respectively. It is not about three gods, but three phases (creation, preservation and destruction) of each block of history that happens continuously as though happening under three overseers. There are no such gods, it is presented in symbols for clarity sake.

  • Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho
    Wake Me Up Before You Jo-Ho

    @Ireneus: "Earth is filled with provisions for all its inhabitants."

    Perhaps as "late comers" onto the scene of humankind, it can feel a bit like a sustainable and inhabitable home. But one look back at the earlier civilizations makes you realize the continued peril the earliest humans went through in order to maintain their existence as a species.

    We know that the human species could be anywhere from a hundred thousand years according to Francis Collins, the physician and geneticist who oversaw the Human Genome Project - to two hundred thousand years old, as put forth by Richard Dawkins. For how many millennia was infant mortality and death during childbirth positively rife? Micro organism diseases were rampant and incurable. Death caused by the now-preventable tooth decay? Innumerable. In fact, the concept of a grandparent didn't exist until perhaps 30,000 years ago since the life expectancy was so transient.

    Factor in volcanos, earthquakes and drastic climate changes and you'd have to think twice about the globe being a hospitable environment for the human species. Sure, with the advancement of technology, science and medicine, we've made something more accommodating out of it. It's the reason I can communicate ideas with you right now in the comfort of a warm dining room while it's five degrees Celsius outside. It's the reason my seasonal cold hasn't needlessly turned into pneumonia thanks to the flu meds I have in the cupboard, which is conveniently stocked with food I don't need to risk my life hunting for in the wild.

    I am interested in the three phases you speak of (creation, preservation, destruction). What do you understand the destruction phase to be?

    By simply saying such cosmological occurrences (eg: stars having an explosive birth AND death, galaxy collision courses) "would never happen" because it's an undesirable pattern break for your deity of choice doesn't mean it won't happen. That just sounds more like wishful thinking in the face of physics and astronomy. I cannot command for tomorrow to be a heatwave here so I can go to the beach any more than you can command the sun to stop exhausting its supply of hydrogen so that your perception of an incorruptible deity remains untarnished.

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