Was Adam "born" Circumsized ?

by RubaDub 34 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • talesin

    Skedaddle - thanks. Can you source that? While reading up on this, I found some differing views. I'm using Wiki for this explanation (not where I originally read it), but there's references in the Wiki article. Thoughts?

    Most Shia traditions regard the practice as obligatory. They rely on sayings that come from classical Shia authors.[26] In one narration Muhammad was asked if an uncircumcised man could go to pilgrimage. He answered "not as long as he is not circumcised". They quote Ali as saying: "If a man becomes Muslim, he must submit to circumcision even if he is 80 years old".[27] Another narration from Al-Sadiq says: "Circumcise your sons when they are seven days old as it is cleaner (athar) and the flesh grows faster and because the earth hates the urine of the uncircumcised".[28]



    There is a tradition in arab Orthodoxy (and I think it is also Ethiopia), to circumcize. The Orthodox Church does NOT require the practice, and views it as part of the Old Covenant. It was interesting reading the Orthodox forums, and happy to see that they have officially taken a stand against it as a religious practice (though they do not forbid it).

  • blondie

    Circumcision did not start with "god's people" until the bible says god made a covenant with Abraham regarding the seed coming through his line. All males in Abraham's household had to be circumcision.

    Circumcision was practiced prior to that but not by the Hebrews so it was not exclusively a sign of being a Hebrew.


    Circumcision knife from the Congo; wood, iron; late 19th/early 20th century

    Circumcision is the world's oldest planned surgical procedure, suggested by anatomist and hyperdiffusionist historian Grafton Elliot Smith to be over 15,000 years old, pre-dating recorded history. There is no firm consensus as to how it came to be practiced worldwide. One theory is that it began in one geographic area and spread from there; another is that several different cultural groups began its practice independently. In his 1891 work History of Circumcision, physician Peter Charles Remondino suggested that it began as a less severe form of emasculating a captured enemy: penectomy or castration would likely have been fatal, while some form of circumcision would permanently mark the defeated yet leave him alive to serve as a slave.[23][77]

    The history of the migration and evolution of the practice of circumcision is followed mainly through the cultures and peoples in two separate regions. In the lands south and east of the Mediterranean, starting with Sudan and Ethiopia, the procedure was practiced by the ancient Egyptians and the Semites, and then by the Jews and Muslims, with whom the practice travelled to and was adopted by the Bantu Africans. In Oceania, circumcision is practiced by the Australian Aborigines and Polynesians.[77] There is also evidence that circumcision was practiced among the Aztec and Mayan civilizations in the Americas,[1] but little detail is available about its history.[23][71]


    ---------It is in the bible too that Christians were not required to be circumcised to be a baptized. e.g., Cornelius was a Roman and was baptized in an uncircumcised state.

    So why should we expect that Adam was circumcised...the only circumcised perfect man in the bible was Jesus.

  • Skedaddle

    @Talesin; ''is circumcision compulsary in islam'' pop this into google and loads of sources pop up. I'm at work so don't have the time to read through and find you a good source but the first source from that google search is from BBC Islam which states;

    ''Circumcision is not compulsory in Islam but it is an important ritual aimed at improving cleanliness. It is strongly encouraged but not enforced. The ritual dates back to the time of the Prophet Muhammad. According to tradition Muhammad was born without a foreskin (aposthetic).Aug 13, 2009''.

    I have someone next to me who is Islamic. He says all Islamic people agree with the above but there are lots

    of nutters who distort it to make it compulsory as a controlling mechanism (think how cults work).

    Pay attention to the word ''tradition'' in your source from wiki. It always says tradition because it is NOT in the Qu'ran.

    To put into perspective, it's not a sin to not be circumcised for an Islamic person. It's a choice. It's a tradition.

    Hope this helps.

  • Diogenesister
    According to tradition Muhammad was born without a foreskin (aposthetic).Aug 13, 2009

    How convenient for him😊

    Doing my community midwifery many of the first time Jewish mom's were horrified at how their baby boy's suffered and said they wouldn't allow it to happen to any subsequent boys.

  • fulltimestudent
    David_Jay : In Judaism, rabbinic custom states that Adam was created circumcised and that all the Jewish male saints had this privilege. However the view is not universal among Jews

    Oh! David, that's such a disappointment!

  • talesin

    I've already researched it. Why not google 'islam circumcision ethiopia'

    Anyhow, whatever.

  • Skedaddle

    If you're referring to FGM it's horrendous too isn't it, more so. So many screwed up distortions of religions! These people really are sick in the head. It's not just Islam either, Christians, Jews etc. all do it. Disgusting! So controlling.

  • rebel8

    Yes, Adam was circumcised when he was 8 days old.

    Jehovah made Adam fall into a deep sleep.

    Because there were no other people in existence yet, Jehovah used animals to perform the procedure. They bandaged the wound with fig leaves.

  • joey jojo
    joey jojo

    Everything I've read concerning the Islamic stance on circumcision usually quotes Islamic scholars saying that it is obligatory for men unless there is a physical condition that may harm them if the procedure is carried out. It is also said to be 'an honour' for women. While perhaps not a technical requirement from the quran, any reader would be left in no doubt that muslim men are required to be circumcised regardless of the age they convert. My impression is that non- circumcision for muslims is definitely the exception, not the rule.

    When I read modern 'studies' about the benefits of circumcision, almost always, the names of the doctors/ researchers are usually jewish, indicating that the research is carried out with the goal to justify a procedure that is deeply embedded in the jewish culture.

    In litigious societies , like the U.S. , surely its only a matter of time before circumcised boys seek damages from their parents for forcing on them an un-asked for medical procedure that is potentially dangerous and if done incorrectly, can cause life-long physical problems, (scarring, pain). In 2016, the fact that a parent has the right to request a physically altering medical procedure on their children based solely on their religious beliefs is hard to believe.

  • Vidiot

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